God loves everybody right ? (godless, women, believing, scripture)
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The question does not take into consideration the fact that while God is love, He is also holy. And He is perfect. God cannot compromise any aspect of His perfect nature. And He is immutable which means that He cannot change. While God loved Adam, He still had to condemn Adam when he sinned against God. Sin is a violation of God's perfect character.
God's perfect righteousness is at the very core of His Being.
Isaiah 6:1 In the year of King Uzziah's death I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, lofty and exalted, with the train of His robe filling the temple. 2] Seraphim stood above Him, each having six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. 3] And one called out to another and said, "Holy, Holy, Holy, is the LORD of hosts, The whole earth is full of His glory."4] And the foundations of the thresholds trembled at the voice of him who called out, while the temple was filling with smoke. 5] Then I said, "Woe is me, for I am ruined! Because I am a man of unclean lips, And I live among a people of unclean lips; For my eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts."
God's holiness consists of His perfect righteousness which is the principle of His holiness, and of His perfect justice which is the function of His holiness. What the righteousness of God approves of His justice must bless. But what His righteousness disapproves of His justice must punish.
God's perfect righteousness demands perfect righteousness in His creatures. When Adam sinned it meant that he no longer had a righteousness which was acceptable to God and therefore the perfect relationship that Adam had enjoyed with God was broken. Adam died spiritually the moment he sinned. And since Adam was the federal head of the human race which was seminally in him the entire human race fell with him.
We are all born spiritually dead, without any relationship with God. If a person dies without having received Christ as Savior, without having trusted in the finished work of Christ on the Cross in which He paid the penalty for our sins, then he must of necessity remain under condemnation and he will be eternally separated from God in the place the Bible calls the lake of fire.
While God's love motivated Him to provide His plan of salvation, it was His justice that actually made salvation possible by judicially imputing our personal sins to Christ on the Cross and then judging those sins. Jesus paid the penalty for our sins which was due us (1 Peter 2:24). This means that sin is no longer the issue in salvation. Instead, the issue is whether or not we will simply accept Christ's sacrifice on our behalf (John 3:16, 36). When a person does receive Christ as Savior then God imputes His perfect righteousness to that person which qualifies Him to have an eternal relationship with God (Romans chapters 3-5). But when a person dies without having trusted in Christ then he has only his own imperfect righteousness which God cannot accept (Isaiah 64:6), and so that person must remain under condemnation and separated from God (1 Thessalonians 1:8-9; Revelation 20:11-15).
Again, while God loves the unbeliever (John 3:16), His justice must leave under condemnation anyone who does not accept His plan of salvation in which Jesus went to the Cross and as our substitute paid the penalty for our sins.
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Originally Posted by Db0809
The question does not take into consideration the fact that while God is love, He is also holy. And He is perfect. God cannot compromise any aspect of His perfect nature. And He is immutable which means that He cannot change.
If this is true, and God is perfect, and cannot compromise his perfection, why does he create man that is so unperfect(excuse my diction i felt like it got my point across) but is in the image of God
I realize that the image that the bible refers to is not physical, but spiritually, something in which makes some sense but not entirely
He makes man in his spiritual image, but man can not be spiritual enough to resist sin
But it does makes sense that the search for happiness never ends in which man has to continue to develop or gain something to continue to be happy which God emulates with the implication that loving him is simply not enough, one must continue to prove his love through Christlike acts and following commandments
The fact that God created man in His image refers to the fact that God created man with self-consciousness, volition, conscience, mentality and emotion.
God did not create man imperfect. God created man (Adam) perfect. Not only physically perfect, but with a righteousness acceptable to God. But when Adam chose to disobey God it resulted not only in him becoming imperfect, but resulting in the entire human race which would follow being born in sin and as a result, imperfect. And spiritually dead - without relationship with God.
You have to understand that God created man with volition. He wanted His creatures to have the ability to make choices. Therefore God had to allow Adam to fall with all the subsequent results to the human race of which he was the federal head. As a result of Adam's original sin we are all born with a corrupted nature and spiritually dead.
God knew in eternity past that man would fall. And He knew what He would do about man's sin problem. God therefore permitted the fall executed His plan of salvation so that anyone who avails himself of God's plan of salvation has eternal life.
Did God know that the Jews would reject Christ? Because I've heard some explanations that say "if the Jews hadn't rejected their Messiah" that such and such promise that God made would have been delivered.
The problem I have Mike, with your last sentence, is that though many like to act like God did us a giant favor by creating us...when you say "he knew Adam (and all of us) would fall" and you put that together with "narrow is the path that leads to salvation and few be it that find it" and then put that together with Eternal Torment for "rejecting God's love" or "not believing" you get a scenario where most people who are born will never get it, or have a way to heaven, and so being born at all becomes much of a curse to most people because they will just end up in Hell forever.
So that can't be right. A loving entity...no matter how bored he was...would never create that kind of scenario.
It's clever to say "but you rejected HIS LOVE!" which makes it sound like anyone would be nuts and even evil to do that...but the way it plays out in the real world...and according to Jesus words that few would find their way...it doesn't work out too good. Most people then would have been better off never being born.
Also...most people were illiterate for a large number of those years that passed...so the idea that we needed to read the written word to have a chance to be saved doesn't really hold up. The organized Churches were corrupted a long time ago in Europe. And the Bible wasn't even available in English until what year?
Where did you learn that? In church? I've never believed, or hoped, my "enemies" go to hell. Churches teach those two things? Yikes. Let us know which ones so I can avoid wandering into one and hearing that nonsense.
Gotta remember that all sweeping generalizations will be wrong to some extent, so it is best to ignore such and address only specific questions/statements.
They are usually made out of a desire to denigrate someone or something, though occasionally out of ignorance.
I feel like this is very helpful and helping me. For I am desperately in search for understanding or at least peace with what I do not understand. The bible makes no sense to me, and the main question as you can see is about God's love, i seriously doubt he loves everybody, it would make no logical or spiritual sense to create a person the he knows would live an unfortunate life that causes him to doubt or never start believing hence living an eternity of punishment, and since God knows everything, that would make no sense if he loves EVERYBODY
The bible appears to be contradictory in many areas. Sometimes that is because of misunderstandings or mistranslations. And many times it is because the bible IS contradictory.
So (and this will send some people here off the deep end), what does your heart tell you -- does it tell you that a God who is love would condemn people to an eternity in hell for not believing the "right things"? Would you condemn your child to eternal punishment for ANYthing? If you wouldn't, does that mean you are more loving than God? How is that possible?
It's just common sense. If God is love, then the way some Christians and some parts of the Bible describe the nature of God, isn't true. And if God is capable of tormenting people for eternity, then God isn't love. How could you love that God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength?
Question I have encountered in reasoning my faith goes thusly
Premise 1: God loves everybody
NO
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Premise 2: God preaches that everyone should love their enemies
Only those who belong to God are told to love their enemies.
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Premise 3: it is a sin to dislike or hate my enemies
No/yes
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Premise 4: God will send my enemies to hell
Not because they are your enemies. You have nothing to do with it.
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Question: if God loves everybody and he preaches to us that we should love our enemies, why would he send anybody to hell when he judges them? How would hell be a sentence of love to your enemies? Or does God not love them the same way he loves his children?
The bible appears to be contradictory in many areas. Sometimes that is because of misunderstandings or mistranslations. And many times it is because the bible IS contradictory.
So (and this will send some people here off the deep end), what does your heart tell you -- does it tell you that a God who is love would condemn people to an eternity in hell for not believing the "right things"? Would you condemn your child to eternal punishment for ANYthing? If you wouldn't, does that mean you are more loving than God? How is that possible?
It's just common sense. If God is love, then the way some Christians and some parts of the Bible describe the nature of God, isn't true. And if God is capable of tormenting people for eternity, then God isn't love. How could you love that God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength?
Question I have encountered in reasoning my faith goes thusly
Premise 1: God loves everybody
Premise 2: God preaches that everyone should love their enemies
Premise 3: it is a sin to dislike or hate my enemies
Premise 4: God will send my enemies to hell
Question: if God loves everybody and he preaches to us that we should love our enemies, why would he send anybody to hell when he judges them? How would hell be a sentence of love to your enemies? Or does God not love them the same way he loves his children?
Please help
It's because these premises were arrived on, not by God (short of a possession, or a Creation, God can't write a book. And if he did so, this would interfere with free will) but by human beings.
I feel like this is very helpful and helping me. For I am desperately in search for understanding or at least peace with what I do not understand. The bible makes no sense to me, and the main question as you can see is about God's love, i seriously doubt he loves everybody, it would make no logical or spiritual sense to create a person the he knows would live an unfortunate life that causes him to doubt or never start believing hence living an eternity of punishment, and since God knows everything, that would make no sense if he loves EVERYBODY
Lol idk I feel like that's what is taught in churches that your enemies are not Christlike because if they were they wouldn't be your enemies, which isn't necessarily true, but eh it's something Christians like to believe sometimes
LOL. Well, that's not what they teach in my church. We are taught to love our enemies. Not easy to do.
Gotta remember that all sweeping generalizations will be wrong to some extent, so it is best to ignore such and address only specific questions/statements.
They are usually made out of a desire to denigrate someone or something, though occasionally out of ignorance.
The OP seemed to believe that's how it works. What church teaches, "God will send your enemies to hell." There's obviously a hole in my education.
(I don't believe in ignoring that kind of thing. I believe those sorts of things should be questioned.)
Last edited by DewDropInn; 03-19-2014 at 02:32 PM..
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There's obviously a hole in my education.
