Why does the Roman Catholic Church believe that the Bishop of Rome is the exclusive and rightful successor to Peter? (Jehovah, lukewarm)
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I believe that Martin Luther was right to question the authority of the pope to be the exclusive and rightful successor to the apostle Peter.
Dude:
Did you read the 95 statements by Luther?
Here is a refresher: Luther never questioned the authority of the Pope.
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The Pope as God's Agent
"6. The pope cannot remit any guilt, except by declaring that it has been remitted by God and by assenting to God's remission; though, to be sure, he may grant remission in cases reserved to his judgment. If his right to grant remission in such cases were despised, the guilt would remain entirely unforgiven." [emphasis added]
In sum, Luther affirms that the pope can only remit guilt because God has granted him such authority. To deny "his right to grant remission in such cases . . . the guilt would remain. . . "
As a Catholic, I say, "Amen"!
Also, check out Thesis 9, which affirms that the Holy Spirit works through the pope.
"9. Therefore the Holy Spirit in the pope is kind to us, because in his decrees he always makes exception of the article of death and of necessity." [emphasis added]
I doubt many today are celebrating Luther's "courageous" statement in Thesis 39 either:
"39. Nevertheless, the remission and participation [in the blessings of the Church] which are granted by the pope are in no way to be despised, for they are, as I have said, the declaration of divine remission." [emphasis added]
Theses 61 also affirms the pope's power:
"61. For it is clear that for the remission of penalties and of reserved cases, the power of the pope is of itself sufficient." [emphasis added]
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The Roman Catholic church had many non-scriptural traditions, such as saying that the pope is infallible when speaking theologically
The Pope represents the Church and the Church has infallibility as per Matt 16: 19
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that statues of saints were worthy of being worshipped,
This is a very common misconception in Sola Scriptura folks:
Watch the video and lear something. Stop spreading misinformation.
Here is a refresher: Luther never questioned the authority of the Pope.
Watch the video and lear something. Stop spreading misinformation.
Julian658 -
Your post inspired me to read [for the first time] all the 95 theses of Martin Luther. You are right that he referred to the pope in the theses in a very respectful manner. His main complaint was about the hawking of indulgences to raise money to build the basilica in Rome. He especially objected to the frequent statement of the hawkers that "When the coin hits the pan, a soul is freed from purgatory" or something equivalent to that. When the pope received a report from the Bishop who investigated the Theses of Luther, and said that Luther's criticism of the indulgences was heretical, Luther's later references to the pope were not at all respectful, even comparing him to be like Satan.
I also watched your video with interest and would agree that the praying for saints to intercede for them is similar to protestants asking for someone to pray for them. In neither of these instances are they worshiping those whom they ask to pray for them.
The priest was certainly correct in saying that people who almost worship sports figures are making gods of them.
Frankly, I have much trouble respecting protestant denominations who teach that we do not have to obey Christ if we have accepted Him as our personal Savior. Jesus made it very clear in the red-letter words of John 14:[15] If ye love me, keep my commandments. . . .[21] He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
His words in Matt.7 imply that those who do not do the will of our heavenly father will not enter the kingdom of heaven; [21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that DOETH the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Your post inspired me to read [for the first time] all the 95 theses of Martin Luther. You are right that he referred to the pope in the theses in a very respectful manner. His main complaint was about the hawking of indulgences to raise money to build the basilica in Rome. He especially objected to the frequent statement of the hawkers that "When the coin hits the pan, a soul is freed from purgatory" or something equivalent to that. When the pope received a report from the Bishop who investigated the Theses of Luther, and said that Luther's criticism of the indulgences was heretical, Luther's later references to the pope were not at all respectful, even comparing him to be like Satan.
I also watched your video with interest and would agree that the praying for saints to intercede for them is similar to protestants asking for someone to pray for them. In neither of these instances are they worshiping those whom they ask to pray for them.
The priest was certainly correct in saying that people who almost worship sports figures are making gods of them.
Frankly, I have much trouble respecting protestant denominations who teach that we do not have to obey Christ if we have accepted Him as our personal Savior. Jesus made it very clear in the red-letter words of John 14:[15] If ye love me, keep my commandments. . . .[21] He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
His words in Matt.7 imply that those who do not do the will of our heavenly father will not enter the kingdom of heaven; [21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that DOETH the will of my Father which is in heaven.
God bless you. I am always very happy to meet a fellow Christian that does not think we Catholics are nuts.
Priests cannot forgive sins. They only do so in the name of Christ. The one that forgive the sins is Christ and not the priest. And confession is mentioned in the New Testament.
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John 20:21-23King James Version (KJV)
21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.
By the way: I do not deny the Catholic Church was corrupt and therefore Luther correctly pointed this out.
just don't ask a ordianary Catholic this question or any question regarding cathloicism most having grade school
High school religion classes that not only left them in la la land but clueless if not empty spiritually.
The Pope is considered infallible via his lineage to the apostle Peter and presumed immune to error or
judgment.......really? Anyway Jesus is my Rock Peter a pebble.
just don't ask a ordianary Catholic this question or any question regarding cathloicism most having grade school
High school religion classes that not only left them in la la land but clueless if not empty spiritually.
The Pope is considered infallible via his lineage to the apostle Peter and presumed immune to error or
judgment.......really? Anyway Jesus is my Rock Peter a pebble.
Actually religion classes in Catholic High Schools are much more open minded. They teach all religions and their point of views. They teach tolerance of others just as Pope Francis says.
And the infallibility of the Pope only has to do with moral issues and doctrine. This can be verified with Matt 16: 19 and has nothing to do with rocks or pebbles.
The Pope is just a leader and acts on behalf of the Church as the vicar of Christ. Otherwise, the Pope is an ordinary man that can sin and fail just like anyone else.
Your post inspired me to read [for the first time] all the 95 theses of Martin Luther. You are right that he referred to the pope in the theses in a very respectful manner. His main complaint was about the hawking of indulgences to raise money to build the basilica in Rome. He especially objected to the frequent statement of the hawkers that "When the coin hits the pan, a soul is freed from purgatory" or something equivalent to that. When the pope received a report from the Bishop who investigated the Theses of Luther, and said that Luther's criticism of the indulgences was heretical, Luther's later references to the pope were not at all respectful, even comparing him to be like Satan.
Many Popes contemporary to Luther and other Reformers were incredibly corrupt. I think the Roman Catholic Church needed the Reformation to get them to eventually clean up their act. It worked too. Catholicism of today is vastly less corrupt and tyrannical than the pre-Reformation version.
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I also watched your video with interest and would agree that the praying for saints to intercede for them is similar to protestants asking for someone to pray for them. In neither of these instances are they worshiping those whom they ask to pray for them.
It really comes down to how you define the word "worship" and "god". In ancient polytheistic religions, just about everyone agreed that there was one ruler god. Zeus or Odin or El or Amun or Brahman or Jupiter or the pre-Islamic Allah or YHWH, etc. Under that supreme god there were many hundreds of lesser gods who were specialists. Poseidon rules the oceans. Apollo is/rules the sun. There are hundreds more, yet all are ruled over by Zeus. You could pray to and worship whichever god was specialized in the area you needed help with. You had patron gods and goddesses of cities in antiquity. You have saints who specialize in a wide variety of things. You have patron saints of cities and churches in Catholicism today.
Imagine an ancient Greek student is studying for an exam. They might pray to Athena, goddess of wisdom for help. They would likely also perform a number of prescribed rituals associated with the worship of Athena as well.
Now fast forward to today. Let's say a Catholic coming into finals week and wants some help. They would most likely pray to Saint Thomas Aquinas, the official patron of scholars, for help. In addition, they might perform some additional rituals associated with Saint Thomas Quinas as well.
So ... what is the difference exactly?? How is one worship and the other not?? The only difference I'm seeing is that the Catholic wouldn't use the word "worship" to describe what they are doing, while the Greek pagan does. The Greek pagan would use the word "goddess" to describe Athena. The Catholic would not use the word "god" to describe Thomas Aquinas.
I think it comes down to verbiage. The meaning of the word "god" changed when the world transitioned from Pagan to Christian. Athena doesn't have to be all-powerful to be a goddess. She is a goddess because she has supernatural powers. They believe she will use those powers on their behalf if they ask her to. But the Catholic understanding for "god" is a being who is all-powerful. To Catholics, Thomas Aquinas' isn't a god because he isn't all-powerful. They still believe that Aquinas has supernatural powers. They still believe that Aquinas will use his powers on their behalf if they ask him to. I fail to see the difference.
When it comes right down to it, how does saying, "he's not a god I'm not actually worshipping him" makes any difference? Catholic saints are direct replacements for lesser pagan gods. They are those specialist lesser gods Catholics pray to for help within the saint's area of influence. That much is pretty obvious. Refusing to call them gods might make you feel better about praying to saints, but it doesn't really change anything.
Still, God is merciful. Reverencing saints might be 100% pagan in it's origins, but nobody is going to burn for eternity over it. Catholics mean well and are only following the traditions that were handed down to them. The more important matter is how well they follow the teachings and commandments given to us by God and Christ.
The reason that false traditions like praying to saints crept in in the first place was because -- contrary to Catholic dogma -- the Pope is not actually the successor to the apostle Peter. He not God's chosen leader over all Christendom. None of the Popes ever were. If they had been, I expect that all of the add-on doctrines contradicting scripture and/or reality would have never crept in to begin with.
Many Popes contemporary to Luther and other Reformers were incredibly corrupt. I think the Roman Catholic Church needed the Reformation to get them to eventually clean up their act. It worked too. Catholicism of today is vastly less corrupt and tyrannical than the pre-Reformation version.
I agree! The Church was immensely powerful, sometimes more powerful than the monarchs of the day. SO the Church attracted ruthless men. Luther was correct in protesting.
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It really comes down to how you define the word "worship" and "god". In ancient polytheistic religions, just about everyone agreed that there was one ruler god. Zeus or Odin or El or Amun or Brahman or Jupiter or the pre-Islamic Allah or YHWH, etc. Under that supreme god there were many hundreds of lesser gods who were specialists. Poseidon rules the oceans. Apollo is/rules the sun. There are hundreds more, yet all are ruled over by Zeus. You could pray to and worship whichever god was specialized in the area you needed help with. You had patron gods and goddesses of cities in antiquity. You have saints who specialize in a wide variety of things. You have patron saints of cities and churches in Catholicism today.
Non-Catholics seem to have a hard time understanding the cultural aspects of Catholicism. They misinterpret culture as a form of worship. Saints are just people that are honored in the church and likely is related to the era or martyrdom in early Christianity when the Christians of that era venerated to bones of the dead martyrs as special. It is nothing but an old tradition. NO different than the West point Cadets throwing their hats in the air after graduation. Lastly prayer is just an act to feel good about something. Most likely no one hear these prayers.
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Now fast forward to today. Let's say a Catholic coming into finals week and wants some help. They would most likely pray to Saint Thomas Aquinas, the official patron of scholars, for help. In addition, they might perform some additional rituals associated with Saint Thomas Quinas as well.
Yes, but the rituals actually help. Whether Aquinas hears this or not is moot. Rituals are useful for many humans.
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Still, God is merciful. Reverencing saints might be 100% pagan in it's origins, but nobody is going to burn for eternity over it. Catholics mean well and are only following the traditions that were handed down to them. The more important matter is how well they follow the teachings and commandments given to us by God and Christ.
Exactly! And evangelical Christians are OK even if they celebrate the pagan festival of Easter and Christmas. And Evangelicals are OK if they put a Christmas tree at home (another pagan symbol). Who cares! Incorporating what was once pagan to affirm Christianity is a good thing.
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The reason that false traditions like praying to saints crept in in the first place was because -- contrary to Catholic dogma -- the Pope is not actually the successor to the apostle Peter. He not God's chosen leader over all Christendom. None of the Popes ever were. If they had been, I expect that all of the add-on doctrines contradicting scripture and/or reality would have never crept in to begin with.
Religion and tradition are not supposed to make any logical sense. IN religion anything goes.
Jesus said "Call no man Teacher because there is only one Teacher and that One is Christ." If the Spirit of Christ is not teaching you then all you have is a "form of Godliness but denying the Power"
People in ministry are merely helpers. Jesus said, "All you are brothers." Too much man worship is going on. Jesus said "Follow Me."
Jesus said "Call no man Teacher because there is only one Teacher and that One is Christ." If the Spirit of Christ is not teaching you then all you have is a "form of Godliness but denying the Power"
People in ministry are merely helpers. Jesus said, "All you are brothers." Too much man worship is going on. Jesus said "Follow Me."
You are taking that phrase out of context. Jesus was putting down the hypocrites. Nice try!
God bless you. I am always very happy to meet a fellow Christian that does not think we Catholics are nuts.
Priests cannot forgive sins. They only do so in the name of Christ. The one that forgive the sins is Christ and not the priest. And confession is mentioned in the New Testament.
By the way: I do not deny the Catholic Church was corrupt and therefore Luther correctly pointed this out.
Julian658,
I appreciate your kind remarks, and the fact that you as a Catholic admit that Luther was correct about the corruption of the Catholic Church in his day. I believe the protestant denominations who have taken Luther's words literally and preach that we are saved "by grace and faith alone" are ignoring the words of Christ in John 14:[15] If ye love me, keep my commandments, and in Matt.7:[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
If we have not committed ourselves to DOING the will of our Father in heaven, we have no assurance that we will enter the kingdom of heaven.
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