Is the Virgin Mary in heaven? (belief, sin, Jesus, Kingdom)

[Julian658]

Originally Posted by mshipmate

The only problem with that is the word soul means 'life' and/or a living being. So then you are actually saying Mary's 'body' is in heaven. Sorry, but that's not possible.

And as far as the passage in Rev. that says there's 'souls' crying out for revenge under the altar. That's an idiom just as God telling Cain, 'Your brother's blood cries out from the ground," is a figure of Speech.

There's no more "bodies in heaven" asking for revenge, anymore than blood can cry out for revenge either!!

Why do you ignore the words of Jesus? Se bold part.

Luke 23:40-43
New International Version (NIV)
40 But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? 41 We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”

42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.[a]”

43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

[trumpethim]

Originally Posted by Julian658

Or is she six feet under!

Both. Her spirit is with Jesus. Her body has disintegrated into dust by now. Her soul is lying dormant, and I'm sure she will be resurrected in the First Resurrection. And by the way, she didn't die a virgin. She had a number of children after Jesus was born.

[mshipmate]

Originally Posted by Julian658

Why do you ignore the words of Jesus? Se bold part.

Who's ignoring Christ's word? I'm surely not.


Do you realize there was no punctuation in the original Greek text? Do you understand what that means? It means the passage read like this:

43 Jesus answered him Truly I tell you today you will be with me in paradise

Now even IF paradise [which BTW, is an Oriental word and means a garden or park] IS heaven, tell me this Julian. Did Christ ascend to heaven that the very day He died? NO!!This was said after His resurrection from the dead, after 3 full days and 3 full nights in the tomb:

Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

So actually what He was telling the thief was this. When I return to the earth to restore it to the way it was in the beginning [garden of Eden], because of your belief, you will be with Me in the restored earth/paradise [then].

[trumpethim]

Ecclesiastes says 12:7, that the spirit of men go back to God after they die. Without dividing the spirit, soul, and body properly, there is all kinds of confusion. There is something very important that mshipmate has correct, and that is that Elijah and Enoch DID NOT go to heaven. NO ONE could enter heaven in any manner before Jesus appeared before the Father to apply the Blood to the heavenly Mercy seat. This was the fulfillment of the Feast of First-Fruits. But upon fulfilling this, Jesus opened the door to release the spirits of those being held where Jesus descended, and they could then go (as spirits) to heaven. Jesus reversed the Adamic curse which held spirits separate from God.

[daylux]

I Thessalonians 4:13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep (believers who have died), lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep."

Then the next passages state we will all get to heaven at the same time.

[mshipmate]

Originally Posted by trumpethim

Ecclesiastes says 12:7, that the spirit of men go back to God after they die. Without dividing the spirit, soul, and body properly, there is all kinds of confusion. There is something very important that mshipmate has correct, and that is that Elijah and Enoch DID NOT go to heaven. NO ONE could enter heaven in any manner before Jesus appeared before the Father to apply the Blood to the heavenly Mercy seat. This was the fulfillment of the Feast of First-Fruits. But upon fulfilling this, Jesus opened the door to release the spirits of those being held where Jesus descended, and they could then go (as spirits) to heaven. Jesus reversed the Adamic curse which held spirits separate from God.

Jesus opened the door to release the spirits of those being held where Jesus descended, and they could then go (as spirits) to heaven. Jesus reversed the Adamic curse which held spirits separate from God.

Ah... I'm not sure about this one. Why? The book of Ecc. 12: 7 is from the OT and it says man's 'spirit' returns to God at death.

However you are correct about dividing the body from the spirit, {Sorry the word soul means the body i.e a living being}but the word spirit means 'breath or wind.' Same as God breathed into Adam the breath [spirit] of life and Adam became a living soul [body/living breathing being].

Man is a 'body' with a "spirit." Body goes in the grave, and our 'spirit' returns to God who gave it.

[Michael Way]

Originally Posted by mshipmate

The only problem with that is the word soul means 'life' and/or a living being. So then you are actually saying Mary's 'body' is in heaven. Sorry, but that's not possible.

And as far as the passage in Rev. that says there's 'souls' crying out for revenge under the altar. That's an idiom just as God telling Cain, "Your brother's blood cries out from the ground," is a figure of Speech.

There's no more "bodies in heaven" asking for revenge, anymore than blood can cry out for revenge either!!

We've had this discussion before. The Bible distinguishes between the soul, the human spirit, and the body. Mary and every other person who has received Christ as Savior and has physically died is in heaven.

I Thess. 5:23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

Jesus stated that man can kill the body but cannot kill the soul.

Matthew 10:28 "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in gehenna.

Peter knew that when he died his soul would depart from his body. He spoke of being in his tabernacle - his body. He spoke of laying aside his earthly dwelling - his body, and departing.

2 Peter 1:13 And I think it right, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance; 14] knowing that the laying aside of my earthly dwelling is imminent, as also our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me. 15] And I will also be diligent that at any time after my departure you will be able to call these things to mind.

Paul knew that to be absent from the body was to be at home with the Lord. 'Absent from the body' means that Paul was not referring to the resurrection.

2 Cor. 5:8 we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.

Psuché - soul, has a range of meaning.

Strong's Concordance
psuché: breath, the soul
Original Word: ψυχή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: psuché
Phonetic Spelling: (psoo-khay')
Short Definition: the soul, life, self
Definition: (a) the vital breath, breath of life, (b) the human soul, (c) the soul as the seat of affections and will, (d) the self, (e) a human person, an individual.
Strong's Greek: 5590. ???? (psuché) -- breath, the soul


The souls of Tribulational martyrs are seen in heaven in Revelation 6:9-11 and 20:4.


And finally, soul sleep is not Biblical. >> What does the Bible say about soul sleep?


To once again answer the OP's question, Mary is in heaven.

[mshipmate]

Originally Posted by daylux

I Thessalonians 4:13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep (believers who have died), lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep."

Then the next passages state we will all get to heaven at the same time.

No it doesn't, it says the dead in Christ will rise; means to resurrect back to life, and then those who are alive will meet Christ in the air.

Note, it doesn't say what you're implying. You're adding words/ideas that are not in these passages. Also note is doesn't say, 'we' will meet Him in heaven.' Also the word 'meet' is a military word which means to send out a delegation to meet a dignitary and escort him back to where you came from. AS here:

Mt 8:34 And, behold, the whole city came out to meet Jesus: and when they saw him, they besought him that he would depart out of their coasts.

Lu 22:10 And he said unto them, Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water; follow him into the house where he entereth in.

Ac 28:15 And from thence, when the brethren heard of us, they came to meet us as far as Appii forum, and The three taverns: whom when Paul saw, he thanked God, and took courage.

Also the word descend means one thing; to step down. Note there's nothing in the word that holds the meaning of Christ stepping down 1/2 way, STOPPING and then making a U-turn back to heaven!!

Also the word air means 'the air we breath' not the outer atmosphere where the birds fly. Again you are reading into those passages in 1 Thess. 4, things that are not written there!!

[mshipmate]

Originally Posted by Mike555

We've had this discussion before. The Bible distinguishes between the soul, the human spirit, and the body. Mary and every other person who has received Christ as Savior and has physically died is in heaven.

I Thess. 5:23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

Jesus stated that man can kill the body but cannot kill the soul.

Matthew 10:28 "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in gehenna.

Peter knew that when he died his soul would depart from his body. He spoke of being in his tabernacle - his body. He spoke of laying aside his earthly dwelling - his body, and departing.

2 Peter 1:13 And I think it right, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance; 14] knowing that the laying aside of my earthly dwelling is imminent, as also our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me. 15] And I will also be diligent that at any time after my departure you will be able to call these things to mind.

Paul knew that to be absent from the body was to be at home with the Lord. 'Absent from the body' means that Paul was not referring to the resurrection.

2 Cor. 5:8 we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.

Psuché - soul, has a range of meaning.

Strong's Concordance
psuché: breath, the soul
Original Word: ψυχή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: psuché
Phonetic Spelling: (psoo-khay')
Short Definition: the soul, life, self
Definition: (a) the vital breath, breath of life, (b) the human soul, (c) the soul as the seat of affections and will, (d) the self, (e) a human person, an individual.
Strong's Greek: 5590. ???? (psuché) -- breath, the soul


The souls of Tribulational martyrs are seen in heaven in Revelation 6:9-11 and 20:4.


And finally, soul sleep is not Biblical. >> What does the Bible say about soul sleep?


To once again answer the OP's question, Mary is in heaven.

Yes, Mike we have had this discussion before and I've shown you how your understanding of all this is incorrect. But you just keep on keeping on and totally ignore what I have shown in the past. I could go back and find all my posts that prove you're wrong, but I don't have the desire nor the time to do so. So now I will do what you always do, and say, "Go find my old posts and read them. I'm not repeating myself!!"

[mshipmate]

I have a question for all of you who believe we are born with/have an immortal soul. A part of us that never dies.

IF ppl are born with an 'eternal soul' [immortal/lives forever] then why was it necessary for Christ to die on the cross to give us eternal life if we of ourselves can live for ever? Kinda redundant isn't it?

Those who teach our 'soul' is immortal are continually perpetuating satan's lie in the garden:

And the serpent said unto the woman, "Ye shall not surely die:" (Genesis 3:4)

And so it continues......