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I don't recall if I have ever heard a Hagee sermon on hell. What is his take? Why did Smith refute it?
dave
As I understand it, Hagee believes in a literal eternal hell, as most traditional Christians do. Smith refutes that, because he is a Universalist Christian. He does not believe in an eternal hell. He believes that God will, in his own time, reconcile his entire creation unto himself. He believes that salvation is through Jesus only, but he does not believe that death is the cut-off. I can't remember the name of L. Ray Smith's website, but it makes for interesting, and challenging reading. Traditional Christians do not agree with his interpretation of scripture, of course, but he, (and other Universalist Christians), should make traditional Christians take a closer look at their own beliefs.
As I understand it, Hagee believes in a literal eternal hell, as most traditional Christians do. Smith refutes that, because he is a Universalist Christian. He does not believe in an eternal hell. He believes that God will, in his own time, reconcile his entire creation unto himself. He believes that salvation is through Jesus only, but he does not believe that death is the cut-off. I can't remember the name of L. Ray Smith's website, but it makes for interesting, and challenging reading. Traditional Christians do not agree with his interpretation of scripture, of course, but he, (and other Universalist Christians), should make traditional Christians take a closer look at their own beliefs.
I agree. If someone is really searching for the truth it would do no harm to check out his site. He backs everything up with scripture and the original language it was written in and its harmony with God`s nature. Hagee calls Greek the most exact language on the earth but yet seems to contradict that with the mistranslations. That is one of the biggest reasons why people believe in an eternal literal lake of fire...imo. Look at the language it was written in and the meaning of those oringinal words, not mans mistranslation because it changes the meaning entirely. Some people believe because most current mainline churches teach it then it must be right. That`s what they base their belief on. Check it out for yourself..ask questions. Don`t believe something just because that`s what you`ve been taught. Research it,pray,ask questions. Just don`t blindly follow something because that is what the world teaches.Remember the phariseess of Jesus`s time? They thought they had it right. They were the mainline religious teachers of their day.They were totally in the dark. I`m just saying,don`t take anyone`s word for it. Your preachers,your father`s, your mother`s,anyone on here including me,just research it for yourself and pray for God`s truth.
Thank you for your responses on hell. I have to admit, I have wrested with hell myself. I am a born again fundamentalist Christian, and when I first got saved it was, you know, turn or burn.
But I think if any Christian really meditates on the reality of an eternal hell of punishment, they cannot help but wonder. How can that be Lord? Why? Etc.
I know all the verses to answer those questions, but if I, being evil, cannot fathom never relenting punishing my own child, how can God, being purely good, not relent.
I've wrestled with it over the years, but when forced into a corner to take a real stand on what I believe, I have to accept by faith that the Scriptures mean what they say, as sobering as it is.
Billy Graham said this exact thing on Larry King when asked about hell. He said he did not know if it was a literal place or not, but whatever it is, it is not pleasant. He did not elaborate on whether or not the "unpleasant place" was eternal or not. He finished up by telling Larry that after decades of Biblical study, he has learned to accept some things (that he does not understand) by faith.
I've wrestled with it over the years, but when forced into a corner to take a real stand on what I believe, I have to accept by faith that the Scriptures mean what they say, as sobering as it is.
dave
Thanks for your post Dave,
This sentence is the one that I always got hung up on. I,like you, grew up in the church always believing in eternal torment because..there it was in black and white in my KJV bible. I would feel something about it just seemed to be at odds with Gods nature. But I just accepted it on faith because it said eternal in my English translated bible. But as I began to rsearch and read what others had written and what they knew, I came to learn the word eternal is translated wrong in English. I did more reading and have come to believe that he will chasten or punish his unbelieving children for an age or a time but eventually every knee will bow and tongue confess. I came to know that Jesus truly is the Savior of the world just like says. It is not about second chances. People will truly be punished and it will not be fun for them but they will come to know the love of God just like the ones he saves in this age. So I guess my response to your post and in particular this sentence of your post is ..what do the scriptures really say? Not man`s translation but the true original greek language that the writers wrote in? God bless
Thanks for your post Dave,
This sentence is the one that I always got hung up on. I,like you, grew up in the church always believing in eternal torment because..there it was in black and white in my KJV bible. I would feel something about it just seemed to be at odds with Gods nature. But I just accepted it on faith because it said eternal in my English translated bible. But as I began to rsearch and read what others had written and what they knew, I came to learn the word eternal is translated wrong in English. I did more reading and have come to believe that he will chasten or punish his unbelieving children for an age or a time but eventually every knee will bow and tongue confess. I came to know that Jesus truly is the Savior of the world just like says. It is not about second chances. People will truly be punished and it will not be fun for them but they will come to know the love of God just like the ones he saves in this age. So I guess my response to your post and in particular this sentence of your post is ..what do the scriptures really say? Not man`s translation but the true original greek language that the writers wrote in? God bless
Thanks for the response. I actually didn't get saved until I was 26 (1989). I've read and heard various materials and sermons on what you are referring to. I still lean more toward the eternal translation. It's hard for me to accept, but I guess that's why getting the message out is so imperative no matter how long hell lasts.
My sister-in-law claims to have had a vision of hell and I believe her. Her discription was more of an eternal searching for what could not be found: satiation. My vision of hell in 1990 was one of an individual in a small pit of sorts and in a fetal position, whatever that's suppose to mean. But visions are not the plumbline, the Word of God is.
There are reports of Near Death Experiences that show a transistion to hell. Whether one believes the data or not is another story. However, several physicians have put their reputation on the line to backup these stories. Several were skeptics and atheists, including the pioneer of the pacemaker. I looked into these stories and learned that they were highly evidential cases--these cases were written and studied immediately after the patient came to. Less chance of embellishment...flat EKG...no brain activity during NDE.
I don't know what to think about Hell. The Bible mentions it, but I believe the chance to get into Heaven is quite easy for those that just accept that Jesus was real. You will be surprised at how many people, whether they are Christians or not, accept this fact of Jesus' existance. I think that's all that is needed. Good works come naturally after that.
I heard Mr. Hagee himself say on his program one evening... "HEB", it stands for Hagee's Eat Better" ! I almost fell off my chair. What gall this man has to make such a statement when there are so many hurting and starving people in this country and in the world. This man needs to repent of his big feeling attitude.
Also, he has a lot of nerve trying to give advice to couples who are divorcing, etc. Especially after he is divorced and remarried himself to Diana. I wonder how his first wife Martha and their other 2 children are doing and what she thinks of him after all these years.
On another note, have you ever heard Hagee preach with a tone of love in his voice?? He's always yelling and screaming at the top of his lungs like he's angry. And his son is following in daddy's footsteps. I guess what they lack in Biblical knowledge they make up with noise.
Last edited by Lostball; 03-21-2008 at 07:28 AM..
Reason: I meant to say Mr. Hagee and spelled it "My" Hagee.
I'm new to the site, but not a new Christain. I have been googling to try to find out the "context" in which Brother Hagee made his controversial statements. I'm familiar with his ministry and find it hard to believe he is an apostate. It reminds me of the comments made by Ann Coulter, which were taken way out of context by people who seem to be ignorant of the Scriptures.
dave
The biggest problem with Hagee is his misunderstanding of eschatology. He believes that all Jews after the flesh (as opposed to being a true Jew, ie, Christian) should go back to modern day Israel. If Hagee can send a Jew to Israel, he thinks he's done a big thing. He thinks he's taken a walk in glory and that maybe GOD will like him. It's a real pity that Hagee does not understand the meaning of the words of JESUS to the Samaritan woman at the well. We all need to be saved. Sending a Jew to Israel is not going to get him or her saved! Only faith in JESUS results in salvation. We need JESUS, not a plane ticket to Tel Aviv
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lostball
I heard Mr. Hagee himself say on his program one evening... "HEB", it stands for Hagee's Eat Better" ! I almost fell off my chair. What gall this man has to make such a statement when there are so many hurting and starving people in this country and in the world. This man needs to repent of his big feeling attitude.
Also, he has a lot of nerve trying to give advice to couples who are divorcing, etc. Especially after he is divorced and remarried himself to Diana. I wonder how his first wife Martha and their other 2 children are doing and what she thinks of him after all these years.
On another note, have you ever heard Hagee preach with a tone of love in his voice?? He's always yelling and screaming at the top of his lungs like he's angry. And his son is following in daddy's footsteps. I guess what they lack in Biblical knowledge they make up with noise.
In Texas everyone knows HEB stands for the supermarket giant Herbert E. Butts great store by the way. I think Hagee has no place to talk seeing he is the poster boy for the sin of gluttony. Yes, he should repent.
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