The Basic Beliefs/Teachings of Christian Universalism (moral, heaven, devil)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Warden, I am a Veteran of foreign Wars, but if you believe that it is only those wearing a uniform with a label - who are the only one's to experience its effects, or are the only one's entitled to speak on the subject matter - you are sadly mistaken. And that goes for Religion, or Christianity as well. You can only speak from your own experiences, not theirs.
As you press on for justice, be sure to move with dignity and discipline, using only the weapon of love. Let no man pull you so low as to hate him. Always avoid violence. If you succumb to the temptation of using violence in your struggle, unborn generations will be the recipients of a long and desolate night of bitterness, and your chief legacy to the future will be an endless reign of meaningless chaos. ( MLK - 1956)
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that.Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Hate multiplies hate, violence multiplies violence, and toughness multiplies toughness in a descending spiral of destruction ... The chain reaction of evil - hate begetting hate, wars producing more wars - must be broken, or we shall be plunged into the dark abyss of annihilation. (MLK - 1963)
Be wise as a serpent, but gentle as a dove.
The MLK quote is wonderful--one of my favorite. I use it all the time.
God commanded us to use "love" as our directive toward one another. But do you think "love" should invalidate earthly justice? Would you set the mass murderer who killed eight or nine people in an Aurora Theater in my Denver Metro area go free? (My wife and I attended those theaters just two weeks ago, a few days before the anniversary of the shootings). I don't think so. Why not? Would you let your "love" invalidate justice? Shouldn't you, you know, break the "chain reaction of evil?" Isn't imprisoning men and women evil? Or is it justice? Is it the correct step, or should they be set free?
Where would we get the idea of "earthly" justice? Did it arise from our animal instincts? Or was it part of being the image of God? God will mete out heavenly justice--not from His hate of sin and sinners, though He does do that--but rather from His righteousness which will not allow justice to be waived in the hereafter.
Are you a "combat veteran?" I was. I know what it is to have shells from both mortars and rockets raining down on me. People can have "opinions" about war---we all do--but someone who has experienced war knows about it in a way so intimate that an outsider is only a pretender with regard to what it is really like.
And that's the way it is about experiencing Christ. While many people on this thread have fine ideas about God, the way they write does not provide a glimpse of that "intimate" experience with God.
ShanaBrown, bless her heart, shows "intimacy" with the spirit of God. So while I may not hold with her as to the final destination of every created soul, I do feel that touch of spiritual intimacy which I have experienced as well. It makes us spiritual combat veterans indeed.
You still do not understand the DEPTH of real love. It's only when you see how hated you are, and feel that touch of love DESPITE the disgust, that one understands what Godly love is all about. To the vast majority of regular posters it is only an ethereal concept--not an experiential one. Two roads diverged in a yellow wood, and I took the one less traveled by--and that has made all the difference.
Educate yourself about the origins of hate within the human psych and stop this absurd and ignorant pretense that you know God hates. YOU hate and YOU have the human weakness . . . NOT God. If you refuse to educate yourself and continue to spout these inanities you just reveal yourself to be a misguided fool driven by guilt. Most of those who support you are similarly misguided about God and refuse to educate themselves as well. God has NONE of our human weaknesses and only complete ignorance of the origin of our weaknesses will allow anyone to think He does. I am so dismayed by the poor education system that allows such ignorance to prevail.The reason we are NOT to exact vengeance in this life is because we do not have the knowledge or wisdom to do so, period. We will reap whatever we sow and God sees it all. There is no need for us to enforce anything of God's. We have no clue about true justice . . . we have too many weaknesses that foster hate and vengeance and jealousy, etc. . . . just like your distorted and twisted beliefs about God's emotions. If God were as YOU think He is I could never love or accept Him. He would be an evil devil worthy of nothing but contempt and disgust.
You will reap whatever you sow, Warden . . . if you have not repented of it during this life. That means whatever harm and hurt you have inflicted on others will be inflicted on you in like measure for the same time period as your victims endured. This will happen while you are completely and fully aware of what God's pure love is actually like and you will see your life and actions through His eyes. This will amplify your distress through extreme remorse and regret . . . "weeping and gnashing of teeth" . . . as your Spirit is attuned to God's pure love.
If you are correct I would fail to participate in whatever way is left to me because YOUR version of God is evil and I would want nothing to do with Him ever.
Nice AVOIDANCE technique. Just don't answer the question but turn it around and point back at the other person. It's a trick learned by lawyers in school--wasn't aware that psychologists attended the same course.
Read what I said again. Can you say you sacrificed the dog after it was ran over by accident?
It was the Dog that sacrificed to save nate, Finn . . . just as Christ sacrificed to save us. You have so much trouble actually thinking through these scenarios.
Quote:
There is no such thing as accidental sacrofice. That's the whole point. What would happen? Then Jesus death would not have accomplished what it was designed to accomplish, and our sins would not be settled.
Of course it was no accident because God knew it was inevitable during that barbarous time . . . He just did NOT demand it to appease Himself for ANYTHING.
Read what I said again. Can you say you sacrificed the dog after it was ran over by accident?
So, you are saying that the sacrifice has to be by God? Aren't you in an awkward position? Is Jesus God?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
There is no such thing as accidental sacrofice. That's the whole point. What would happen? Then Jesus death would not have accomplished what it was designed to accomplish, and our sins would not be settled.
No, of course there is no accidental sacrifice, but whose "sacrifice" re we talking about? The last sentence is nothing more than your assertion of your interpretation of "Atonement," I don't buy it.
Educate yourself about the origins of hate within the human psych and stop this absurd and ignorant pretense that you know God hates. YOU hate and YOU have the human weakness . . . NOT God. If you refuse to educate yourself and continue to spout these inanities you just reveal yourself to be a misguided fool driven by guilt. Most of those who support you are similarly misguided about God and refuse to educate themselves as well. God has NONE of our human weaknesses and only complete ignorance of the origin of our weaknesses will allow anyone to think He does. I am so dismayed by the poor education system that allows such ignorance to prevail.The reason we are NOT to exact vengeance in this life is because we do not have the knowledge or wisdom to do so, period. We will reap whatever we sow and God sees it all. There is no need for us to enforce anything of God's. We have no clue about true justice . . . we have too many weaknesses that foster hate and vengeance and jealousy, etc. . . . just like your distorted and twisted beliefs about God's emotions. If God were as YOU think He is I could never love or accept Him. He would be an evil devil worthy of nothing but contempt and disgust.
You will reap whatever you sow, Warden . . . if you have not repented of it during this life. That means whatever harm and hurt you have inflicted on others will be inflicted on you in like measure for the same time period as your victims endured. This will happen while you are completely and fully aware of what God's pure love is actually like and you will see your life and actions through His eyes. This will amplify your distress through extreme remorse and regret . . . "weeping and gnashing of teeth" . . . as your Spirit is attuned to God's pure love.
If you are correct I would fail to participate in whatever way is left to me because YOUR version of God is evil and I would want nothing to do with Him ever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden
Nice AVOIDANCE technique. Just don't answer the question but turn it around and point back at the other person. It's a trick learned by lawyers in school--wasn't aware that psychologists attended the same course.
I answered your questions, Warden . . . did you just skim my post and make a knee jerk defensive response??? Try actually reading my posts and educate yourself, Warden. Your desperation is only hurting you . . . not me.
Do you HATE pedophilia? Or are you simply "angry" with it. Is it enough of evil to deserve HATE on your part because of how it victimizes others?
Why don't I hear any universalists calling to put Jesus' words into action as we walk on this earth in this life. Shouldn't we want to be all "love, love, love?" Why should we support "justice" in this life, if God doesn't intend to provide "justice" in the afterlife? Shouldn't we let the mass murderers go free?Don't dwell on that thought long. To do so is to seek--and you may find what is not to your liking.......
Warden, you were not paying attention when I said that JUSTICE is NOT punishment, it is restorative, and any penal system worth supporting will have as much or more emphasis on reclaiming the felon to societh as it does on keeping him from continuing his actions in society and NONE on punishment for the sake of revenge.
The MLK quote is wonderful--one of my favorite. I use it all the time.
God commanded us to use "love" as our directive toward one another. But do you think "love" should invalidate earthly justice? Would you set the mass murderer who killed eight or nine people in an Aurora Theater in my Denver Metro area go free? (My wife and I attended those theaters just two weeks ago, a few days before the anniversary of the shootings). I don't think so. Why not? Would you let your "love" invalidate justice? Shouldn't you, you know, break the "chain reaction of evil?" Isn't imprisoning men and women evil? Or is it justice? Is it the correct step, or should they be set free?
Where would we get the idea of "earthly" justice? Did it arise from our animal instincts? Or was it part of being the image of God? God will mete out heavenly justice--not from His hate of sin and sinners, though He does do that--but rather from His righteousness which will not allow justice to be waived in the hereafter.
Are you a "combat veteran?" I was. I know what it is to have shells from both mortars and rockets raining down on me. People can have "opinions" about war---we all do--but someone who has experienced war knows about it in a way so intimate that an outsider is only a pretender with regard to what it is really like.
And that's the way it is about experiencing Christ. While many people on this thread have fine ideas about God, the way they write does not provide a glimpse of that "intimate" experience with God.
ShanaBrown, bless her heart, shows "intimacy" with the spirit of God. So while I may not hold with her as to the final destination of every created soul, I do feel that touch of spiritual intimacy which I have experienced as well. It makes us spiritual combat veterans indeed.
You still do not understand the DEPTH of real love. It's only when you see how hated you are, and feel that touch of love DESPITE the disgust, that one understands what Godly love is all about. To the vast majority of regular posters it is only an ethereal concept--not an experiential one. Two roads diverged in a yellow wood, and I took the one less traveled by--and that has made all the difference.
When did justice, ever require hate.Would not hate, create a prejudice? But to say, I do not understand the DEPTH OF REAL LOVE?
Isn't that a bit self-righteous? Is it really, all about you?
No offense, but seeing how hated I am doesn't create an environment of love.
Quote:
Are you a "combat veteran?"
US Army Special Operations Force - Green Beret.
And, yes, experienced it, up close and personal.
You will reap whatever you sow, Warden . . . if you have not repented of it during this life. That means whatever harm and hurt you have inflicted on others will be inflicted on you in like measure for the same time period as your victims endured. This will happen while you are completely and fully aware of what God's pure love is actually like and you will see your life and actions through His eyes. This will amplify your distress through extreme remorse and regret . . . "weeping and gnashing of teeth" . . . as your Spirit is attuned to God's pure love.
Quote:
Jesus did say that no one could get out of prison until he paid the uttermost farthing. This teaching of Jesus' does go against the teaching of instant sanctification taught by most of the modern Christian churches. And it is a very sobering thought! To think of how many church-goers there are who have taken God's grace in vain because of the false teaching of the churches - well, that's very sobering! There are a lot of people who attend church every Sunday who live like the devil because they have been taught that God will not judge us "after we confess Christ as Savior".
Jesus did say that no one could get out of prison until he paid the uttermost farthing. This teaching of Jesus' does go against the teaching of instant sanctification taught by most of the modern Christian churches. And it is a very sobering thought! To think of how many church-goers there are who have taken God's grace in vain because of the false teaching of the churches - well, that's very sobering! There are a lot of people who attend church every Sunday who live like the devil because they have been taught that God will not judge us "after we confess Christ as Savior".
Amen!!!
And while Mystic castigated me as a hater he does not tell any of his patients they me live without constraints because God has already forgiven them and they will be in Heaven regardless.
If he did, he might be creating another George Sodini ---who might end up in hell--while Mystic's careere would end up in the toilet.
God hates sin AND will punish the sinner--in some fashion. The sinner who does such things will hardly expect to be a close associate at the next heavenly feast---oh, but God loves---maybe they will.
Jesus did say that no one could get out of prison until he paid the uttermost farthing. This teaching of Jesus' does go against the teaching of instant sanctification taught by most of the modern Christian churches. And it is a very sobering thought! To think of how many church-goers there are who have taken God's grace in vain because of the false teaching of the churches - well, that's very sobering! There are a lot of people who attend church every Sunday who live like the devil because they have been taught that God will not judge us "after we confess Christ as Savior".
Sanctification is to make Holy, but that will only happen when sin has been purified from the souls of men.
Please, bring your garments made for swimming to the Lake - it's going to be a hot day.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
