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The law was given to show that all have fallen short of the Glory of God [beauty of His charactor]. So I surpose few where righteous enough to put another to death because as Jesus said, "Let He that is without sin cast the first stone."
Nevertheless the law and the consequences for not obeying it shows the goal of righteousness and that God is not pleased with sin. Without a righteous goal/standard then anything goes but not with God. Final judgement will be given by Him who has no sin. If in the Old Testament some where to die without mercy then as the New Testament says, How much surer a punishment awaits those who reject the Gospel which is the only power provided by God for the salvation of the world.
But for now it is, "I will have mercy" Jesus said, so that mercy will triumpth over final judgement but the goal of mercy is to bring us to Christ so that the New Birth into His Righteousness will put to death deliberate sin. He has the power to change our very nature from a creature driven by instinct to the nature of adopted sons of God. Changed by and led more and more by the Spirit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Munchkin
Amen, garya123 !
I pray ppl would truly see how much God hates sin.
In these last days there is such a down play with sin, compromising, ppl knowing they are living in sin with the attitude of God is love and continue believing their OK because Jesus died for their sin and truly not believing the truth of the consequence of sin and having no desire (conviction) of repenting and allowing the Lord Jesus to cleanse their life ( the new birth) from that which has them in bondage, separated from the Father !
This is not a game...... but reality in what you are sharing and my heart gets so troubled when I read and hear the way some carry on with the reality of not believing and obeying God's truth ! Sin is so deceiving ! ! The OT is full of testimonies of ppl not listening to the will of God and the consequences of those who did not believe, nor obey when they were warned of judgement, the wrath of God against sin ! !
It's so good and such a blessing to see you posting !
The law was given to show that all have fallen short of the Glory of God [beauty of His charactor]. So I surpose few where righteous enough to put another to death because as Jesus said, "Let He that is without sin cast the first stone."
Nevertheless the law and the consequences for not obeying it shows the goal of righteousness and that God is not pleased with sin. Without a righteous goal/standard then anything goes but not with God.
What the New Covenant requires is much tougher than laws, it requires a commitment to concern for the well-being of everyone in any given situation regardless of what rules may or may not have been put in place.
But isn't that the instruction of God which all "believers" are to follow?
"They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
Is anyone seriously going to maintain that God actually taught that in the Bible?
Or is it the writing of men, not God?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galileo2
Galileo 2 posted:
"They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; andeveryone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13)
Hd4me posted;
The teachings of Jesus would contradict any notion that God's instructions are to kill "unbelievers."
Galileo 2 follows up:
So are you admitting that the teachings of Jesus sometimes contradicts God’s teachings? Did Jesus then say in effect that God was in error?
Were you not drawing a parallel to the situation in which ISIS "kills unbelievers" and "the instruction of God which all "believers" are to follow?" (present tense)
Where in the Christian Greek Scriptures is it taught that Christians are to kill unbelievers?
Nonetheless, what you bring out above at 2 Chronicles 15:12-13 (which are part of the Hebrew Scriptures) neglects the circumstances under which those words were recorded.
What were those circumstances?
Once one considers the circumstances, the contrast between what is recorded in 2 Chronicles 15:12,13 and what ISIS does today is clear.
Are you saying then that God originally created a bad Theocracy? Even though He is omniscient, He still made that mistake which men had the good sense to disregard?
What do you mean by bad theocracy? Is God static or progressive in fulfilling his purposes? Does he reveal everything at once to his faithful servants?
Was it God's plan to have this as a permanent arrangement? What does Galatians 3:23 and Hebrews 8:6-10 indicate?
What did the God of the "OT" or Hebrew Scriptures indicate, even before Jesus came, of his intention? Jeremiah 31:31-34
[quote=hd4me;36883511]>>Were you not drawing a parallel to the situation in which ISIS "kills unbelievers" and "the instruction of God which all "believers" are to follow?" (present tense)<<
RESPONSE:
"They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
And
"If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst" (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
There's a future tense reference for you.
>>Where in the Christian Greek Scriptures is it taught that Christians are to kill unbelievers?<<
RESPONSE:
The Old Testament is written in Hebrew not Greek.
>>Nonetheless, what you bring out above at 2 Chronicles 15:12-13 (which are part of the Hebrew Scriptures) neglects the circumstances under which those words were recorded.<<
RESPONSE:
God laid down this as a general law applicable to all circumstances. If you are asserting that He did not, please provide your evidence.
>>What were those circumstances? <<
RESPONSE: None of the commandments of God are limited by any circumstances.
>>Once one considers the circumstances, the contrast between what is recorded in 2 Chronicles 15:12,13 and what ISIS does today is clear.<<
RESPONSE:
No that is not the case.
“And KILL them (the unbelievers) wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.” (Sura 2, verse 191).
Once again God set no circumstances.
Perhaps you can tell us what circumstances ISIS follows.
Last edited by Aristotle's Child; 10-15-2014 at 07:34 AM..
Reason: typo
What do you mean by bad theocracy? Is God static or progressive in fulfilling his purposes? Does he reveal everything at once to his faithful servants?
Was it God's plan to have this as a permanent arrangement? What does Galatians 3:23 and Hebrews 8:6-10 indicate?
What did the God of the "OT" or Hebrew Scriptures indicate, even before Jesus came, of his intention? Jeremiah 31:31-34
RESPONSE See GaryA123's post above.
"No, Jesus didn't condemn that Old Testament teaching because it was under a Theocracy that it was given but they refused to live in accordance with Gods wishes for their benefit and their childrens. And so the Theocracy was disbanded and a New Covenant took it's place. The Jews and Christiandom are not now living under an Old Testament Theocracy but a New Theocracy is coming to the new heaven and earth wherein the the saints of yesterday, today and tommorrow will rule in righteousness with all fairness to it's inhabitants."
Are you saying that God is imperfect and did not foresee the response to the old Theocracy and so had to make a new one?
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