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Heh, How convenient of you to only point out Jude. The sins of Sodom are the following:
-Idolatry - Deuteronomy 29:17-26; 32:32-38 Murder, greed, theft, rebellion - Isaiah 1:9-23
-Mistreating the poor, arrogance - Isaiah 3:8-19
-Adultery, deceit by priests and prophets, pride of the heart,
-idolatry - Jeremiah 23:10-14; 49:16-18; 50:2-40
-Cruelty, failure to care for the young and poor - Lamentations 4:3-6
-Pride, greed, laziness, mistreatment of the poor and needy, haughty, abominations - Ezekiel 16:49-50
-Oppression and mistreating the poor - Amos 4:1-11
-Pride - Zephaniah 2:8
-Living after ungodliness - 2 Peter 2:6
-Fornication, going after strange flesh - Jude 1
Sounds like a lot of reasons God wasn't too found of Sodom
Most of those have nothing to do with a persons sexual orientation.
And, if memory serves, men where not the only one's present?
Heh, How convenient of you to only point out Jude. The sins of Sodom are the following:
-Idolatry - Deuteronomy 29:17-26; 32:32-38 Murder, greed, theft, rebellion - Isaiah 1:9-23
-Mistreating the poor, arrogance - Isaiah 3:8-19
-Adultery, deceit by priests and prophets, pride of the heart,
-idolatry - Jeremiah 23:10-14; 49:16-18; 50:2-40
-Cruelty, failure to care for the young and poor - Lamentations 4:3-6
-Pride, greed, laziness, mistreatment of the poor and needy, haughty, abominations - Ezekiel 16:49-50
-Oppression and mistreating the poor - Amos 4:1-11
-Pride - Zephaniah 2:8
-Living after ungodliness - 2 Peter 2:6
-Fornication, going after strange flesh - Jude 1
Sounds like a lot of reasons God wasn't too found of Sodom
Yes, all of those are the primary sins of Sodom. Jeff is now wishing to recant about homosexual activity in animals being an attempt at dominance. The fact the men of Sodom wished to rape the two angels was exactly that animal instinct at dominance.
The other ungodly attempt at dominance that makes one a sodomite (nothing sexual at all in being a sodomite--dominance is the issue), is waving the bible about with surety that the bible waver has the answer and no one else is even close. Once again it is the Pharisee in action saying in his prayer, "Thank God I'm not like that sinner over there." Those were the people Jesus spoke about with the most vitriol. They were the most biblically learned with the least spiritual understanding--like most of the fundamentalists on this thread.
Heh, How convenient of you to only point out Jude. The sins of Sodom are the following:
-Idolatry - Deuteronomy 29:17-26; 32:32-38 Murder, greed, theft, rebellion - Isaiah 1:9-23
-Mistreating the poor, arrogance - Isaiah 3:8-19
-Adultery, deceit by priests and prophets, pride of the heart,
-idolatry - Jeremiah 23:10-14; 49:16-18; 50:2-40
-Cruelty, failure to care for the young and poor - Lamentations 4:3-6
-Pride, greed, laziness, mistreatment of the poor and needy, haughty, abominations - Ezekiel 16:49-50
-Oppression and mistreating the poor - Amos 4:1-11
-Pride - Zephaniah 2:8
-Living after ungodliness - 2 Peter 2:6
-Fornication, going after strange flesh - Jude 1
Sounds like a lot of reasons God wasn't too found of Sodom
Ok so the sins of Sodom were homosexuality and other things. And your point is?
Yes, all of those are the primary sins of Sodom. Jeff is now wishing to recant about homosexual activity in animals being an attempt at dominance. The fact the men of Sodom wished to rape the two angels was exactly that animal instinct at dominance.
The other ungodly attempt at dominance that makes one a sodomite (nothing sexual at all in being a sodomite--dominance is the issue), is waving the bible about with surety that the bible waver has the answer and no one else is even close. Once again it is the Pharisee in action saying in his prayer, "Thank God I'm not like that sinner over there." Those were the people Jesus spoke about with the most vitriol. They were the most biblically learned with the least spiritual understanding--like most of the fundamentalists on this thread.
But it's ok to wave your fake version of the Bible and proudly say, I'm not like that bigot over there? There is NOTHING in your comments that speaks Christian love and kindness to me. You exhale the same negative attitude that I get from atheists.
Are you really saying humans are just like animals? Do you even believe God created man?
But it's ok to wave your fake version of the Bible and proudly say, I'm not like that bigot over there? There is NOTHING in your comments that speaks Christian love and kindness to me. You exhale the same negative attitude that I get from atheists.
Are you really saying humans are just like animals? Do you even believe God created man?
No, as stated previously and ignored over and over by you, the example of Jesus was to speak harshly and pointedly ONLY to religious people that tout their version of scripture to the detriment of other people. You consistently demonize homosexuals so I consistently follow Jesus' example and point out to everyone that your religious practice is evil in the sight of Jesus. Are you sincere about that religious practice? I think you are just as sincere as you are wrong. And for sure we all know you were not born that way, you created yourself and have usurped the position of God to be judge of other people.
The bible is composed of complicated texts. The English versions chock full of questionable doctrines and spiritually I've seen few so gullible as you. I really believe politics are your religion and that politicians who began manipulating evangelical churches forty years ago control your religious views. Why? Because I was an evangelical before you were born and none of the hateful garbage coming from their pulpits now was ever mentioned.
You are too busy looking for sins in others to look into your own heart, the only heart you should be weighing in the balances.
I'm sure you condemn me to hell. No problem, you and I and tthttf can discuss it there face to face.
I rejoice in knowing the ugliness about gays spouted on this thread are driving young people out of the so called "Christian" churches of America. Better to be unchurched than yoked to such terrible, sinful words by people who know nothing about the love of Christ.
Well, your verses of scripture in Kings show God didn't want the Israelites to intermarry--and then along comes Ruth and it's okay.
When 2nd Timothy was written there was no New Testament. Christians after the fact have applied it to the New Testament---and at one time it was viewed as applying to books considered apocryphal by Protestants and inspired by Roman Catholics. Until the reformation those apocryphal books were considered inspired by everybody. Then Protestants, who didn't agree with some of the doctrine developed from them said they weren't inspired.
If you, as a Protestant, can reject some of the originally accepted inspired books of the Bible, why be upset that others see writings in YOUR bible as man-made and in opposition to Jesus. The God of the Old Testament was very changeable if you believe in plenary verbal inspiration. The writers got it wrong scientifically and even prophetically. This happened not because they were not trying to express their understanding of God, but because they were human.
If you want to see the conflicts within scripture, study the bible scholastically. Ignorant men want to prevent truth seekers from delving into how and why scripture was composed.
I am a liberal with my view of scripture. The surest way to make a liberal is to have a person study scripture scholastically. Many former bible students who were fundamentalists have become liberal (and a few have lost their faith because, IMO, it was never founded in Christ), but I've never heard of a serious Bible student turning from liberal to fundamentalist.
If you really are a truth seeker then know that at one time (no longer) now fundamentalist churches taught the priesthood of the believer---where every person can read and interpret scripture for themselves. Now the politicized church rejects that view. It has, in effect, become a Roman Catholic hierarchy while holding on to the image of Protestantism.
Or refuse to learn for yourself and remain tied to the strings of a church which will never allow you to be who you are.
If you've read Mel White's autobiography then you know of his prayers to God to deliver him from "evil," his attempt for 25 years to maintain the facade of conservative Christianity, and then his awakening with the words of a real Christian who accepted him as he was, not as conservative apostates demanded he be.
You are a gay man. God did not say "it is good for man to be alone." He made women because almost all of nature reproduces with the union of two sexes--and therefore heterosexuality simply must be in the preponderance for any species to survive. But a small proportion of cattle and dogs and even fruit flies exhibit both male and female homosexuality. Was God a liar when He created everything and said "it is good?"
As I said before, if you choose celibacy to honor God, good for you. If you choose it because you believe God wanted to create you as a sinner, you haven't studied scripture deeply enough.
There was a reason why the Israelites were forbidden to marry as they did not believe in the True God. God knew if the Isrealites did intermarry with them, then the result would be the Israelties would turn away from the true God and worship pagan Gods.
This was not due to racial reasons but religious reasons. Yet the Israelities did that and worshiped pagan gods and turned against the True God of Israel.
With regards to Ruth, yes she was a non Jew but she believed in the true God and became assimilated into Israelite society.
With regards to animals that possess homosexual characteristics, does it also set the moral standard for humans to to the same such as: Since animals kill and eat each other, does this set a moral standard for people to do the same?
Since numerous species kill and eat their own young, does this justify people killing and eating their own babies? I once had mice and at one time the mother mouse ate all her babies.
Of course the pro gay Christian argument is that Jesus never said anything about homosexuality while on Earth. Yet Jesus did not address Child sexual abuse, drug abuse, nor pornography, smoking, spousal abuse, or torture. Does this fact therefore condone such sins and atrocities?
You claim the Old Testament is wrong in prophecy, yet the best example of a prophecy that proved true was it did predict the coming of Jesus on Earth as well as his death and resurrection.
I do not buy into the concept of Liberal or Conservative Christian. Either you are Christian or not.
Yet as a Christian we are required to change our views since turning to Christ and asking him to be your personal saviour:
Rom. 12:2 tells us to “be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.”
All I have to say that not only the Lord has transformed me, he has also healed me of suffering many years of depression.
Are you saying a person who completely subscribes to reason and logic can NEVER be wrong?
Of course not. Do you have comprehension issues?
If I wanted to say that, I would.
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