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OTOH, I've had very real supernatural experiences that show me God is real.
So have I.
In July of 1983 God revealed to me that the fundamentalists' beliefs about and treatment of the LGBT community was contrary to the love, message and teachings of His son, Jesus of Nazareth.
This is the 21st century, not 400BC or 40AD. Our culture is completely different. Our knowledge has vastly increased in 2000 years. That's a 'reality'.
And it's a 'reality' that the Biblical texts and the ancient cultures it which they were written, have nothing at all to do with gay and lesbian people in the 21st century.
And the Bible is quite clear about what is natural and unnatural. There are unchangeable truths that carry on from generation to generation despite an increase in man's knowledge. I remember man's arrogance in the 90s when even our president defiled his marriage vows. The response was who cares, the economy is great! But a mere 10 years later, the illusion crumbled, and people, despite all the advance in knowledge, realized that debt is slavery. Just like the Bible says. Dave Ramsey has built a successful industry helping ppl in debt based off "ancient" Biblical teachings.
I believe if people followed God's teaching on sexual morality, many of our social ills would be eliminated. Here's are some things that sexual immorality causes:
Teen pregnancy
spread of STDS
Destruction of intimacy in marriage - more divorce - more children growing up in single parent homes - increase in gangs and criminal activity.
Depression and low self esteem particularly in women
In July of 1983 God revealed to me that the fundamentalists' beliefs about and treatment of the LGBT community was contrary to the love, message and teachings of His son, Jesus of Nazareth.
Are you sure that was God and not Satan the deceiver?
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
You can shout to the heavens all you want that God is a fairy tale, but in the end, it's still just your opinion based on nothing really except your notion of how you think a moral God should act. OTOH, I've had very real supernatural experiences that show me God is real.
I think a lot of people who matured in the 60s and 70s had visual experiences. I think it was called good drugs.
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Even if you have a valid case that God is just mean and evil in the Bible, how does that prove He doesn't exist?
And there is no empirical, replicable even an indication, never mind a proof, that any god exists.
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So all you need is a single verse saying slavery sucks? You are just cherry picking while ignoring the other verses that talk about humane treatment of slaves. Jesus came to save the souls of men, not cause a revolution and destroy deeply ingrained social and economic institutions which are temporary in comparison to eternity.
Horse pucky. There is no verses that objects to slavery period. I don't care if they are coddled in swaddling clothes, the fact that your bible does not say anything opposed to one human being owning another one shows it can not be a guide for morality.
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As for the OT, many of the slaves were prisoners of war and enemies of God's people. So I guess you think it would be better to free them so they can go back and murder more Israelities or just execute them huh?
No excuses or sidetracking. Owning another human being is not moral. Period. Your bible endorses slavery, even Jesus does.
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There is nothing in the passage that even remotely suggests rape is accepted. You are applying a modern society overlap with a high degree of assumption. The passage only talks about the type of punishment given to the offender. Of course, the punishment would be awful in our modern day society, but women had little freedom and options in those ancient cultures.
Wrong. It does not. It says the offender gets of scot free by paying 'damages' to the father. There is nothing in that book that condemns rape.
It is a horrible basis of human morality. An atheist viewpoint is much, much more humane.
Are you sure that was God and not Satan the deceiver?
I suppose it depends which one was not pointing the finger. I read this morning there are 4 don'ts, one being don't condemn. Jesus did not go around condemning sinners because they were sinners, he revealed the heart of the Father.
I suppose it depends which one was not pointing the finger. I read this morning there are 4 don'ts, one being don't condemn. Jesus did not go around condemning sinners because they were sinners, he revealed the heart of the Father.
He said go and sin no more. Sure sounds to me that we are to STOP sinning.
I think a lot of people who matured in the 60s and 70s had visual experiences. I think it was called good drugs.
And there is no empirical, replicable even an indication, never mind a proof, that any god exists.
Only in your world. In the real world, thousands of people have supernatural experiences without the use of hallucinogenic drugs. I guess you now have to just believe that we are either all lying or insane to maintain your version of reality.
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Originally Posted by cupper3
Horse pucky. There is no verses that objects to slavery period. I don't care if they are coddled in swaddling clothes, the fact that your bible does not say anything opposed to one human being owning another one shows it can not be a guide for morality.
You can't find me one verse where God says He approves of slavery either. Allowing something to exist is not the same thing as approving of it. God allowed divorce to exist even though He hates it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3
No excuses or sidetracking. Owning another human being is not moral. Period. Your bible endorses slavery, even Jesus does.
Since you ignore my question, and present a close door argument, there is no point in discussing this anymore with you. But don't expect me to answer your questions anymore when you refuse to show me the same courtesy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3
Wrong. It does not. It says the offender gets of scot free by paying 'damages' to the father. There is nothing in that book that condemns rape.
It is a horrible basis of human morality. An atheist viewpoint is much, much more humane.
I've pointed out many times why such a simple moral code fails. It felt good to go cruising all over the US in decades past, burning up fossil fuels without realizing the harm we are causing to the environment that our future generations will have to deal with. So it felt good, but you still caused harm and didn't know it.
If it doesn't feel good to help people in need, don't do it, right?
Many examples why your viewpoint fails completely.
Only in your world. In the real world, thousands of people have supernatural experiences without the use of hallucinogenic drugs. I guess you now have to just believe that we are either all lying or insane to maintain your version of reality.
You can't find me one verse where God says He approves of slavery either. Allowing something to exist is not the same thing as approving of it. God allowed divorce to exist even though He hates it.
Since you ignore my question, and present a close door argument, there is no point in discussing this anymore with you. But don't expect me to answer your questions anymore when you refuse to show me the same courtesy.
I've pointed out many times why such a simple moral code fails. It felt good to go cruising all over the US in decades past, burning up fossil fuels without realizing the harm we are causing to the environment that our future generations will have to deal with. So it felt good, but you still caused harm and didn't know it.
If it doesn't feel good to help people in need, don't do it, right?
Many examples why your viewpoint fails completely.
We are still waiting for you to tell us about your supernatural experience.
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