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In this post, you said "sexual immorality (which includes homosexuality) is even more damaging than other sins"
Here cupper3 points out that "you just have to pay off the father if you rape the daughter."
So, is rape not a sexual immorality? I mean, YOU said sexual immorality is worse than other sins, yet all a man who rapes a young girl has to do (based on Biblical writings) to get off the hook, is marry the girl and pay her father some money. Does that mean that raping a young girl isn't nearly as bad as homosexuality? If it's not, what does it mean when you say sexual immorality is even more damaging than other sins. If it is as bad as homosexuality, why haven't you started a thread about it and posted a few hundred Bible quotes about how bad it is? If raping a young girl IS as bad as homosexuality, what explanation is there about that paying off the father thing?
I'm just confused. Perhaps you can explain yourself here.
Well certainly rape is part of sexual immorality. Anything sexual activity that falls outside of God's design is sexual immorality. God designed sex as a way for a married man and woman to bond together physically and spiritually. Even a non-Christian woman will usually tell you that she needs intimacy, not just the physical sensations of sex.
As for your points about the Bible and rape, the problem is you are assuming this ancient culture operated exactly the same way as our modern society. In today's society, women are independent, marry for love and can choose their partners. In Biblical times, a woman without a husband was pretty much a death sentence or they had slavery or prostitution as means of survival. Marriages were arranged so what is better in that context, an arrangement that guarantees the security of the woman, or a becoming a prostitute? A raped woman would not be able to freely find a husband back then because virginity was highly desired.
Also, Exodus 22:17 shows that a father ultimately decides whether his daughter is to marry the man or not.
Last edited by jeffbase40; 12-07-2014 at 12:44 PM..
Governments are made up of men. We want to view them as a separate entity. But when they do something wrong, the politicians hide behind the fact that it was the "government" that forced this on people.
It's the exact thing that many Christians try to do with enforcing certain moral views on people. They hide behind the "God said it, not me," defense.
At the same time the government has frequently done things opposed by many that have resulted in great good.
The government stepped in when Christians wouldn't to make it illegal for coal companies to send twelve year old children down into mines.
The government stepped in when Christians didn't even think about it, to make automobile travel safer--with seat belts and later air bags. Corporations complained it cost too much money.
The government stepped in when many Christians contributed to the problem to end segregation.
The government has stepped in when Christians wouldn't raise their voices to ensure every American now has the ability to get decent health care--not just ER health care. It's weak point is that it still uses corporations to provide insurance, but at least there is some availability, and people cannot be rejected for the sake of profit.
The government, in the form of the President, when Christians failed to demand something be done, has stepped in to make a partial solution to the huge number of illegal immigrants--who've come to this nation to work primarily for corporations "off the books" and sometimes for less than minimum wage.
And now the government is stepping in when the majority of Christians stand opposed to it, to make sure homosexuals have the right to marry.
Does anyone see the pattern here? The so-called majority of Christians in the country are opposed to both individual freedoms and the public good. Those Christians are using their religion to protect their selfishness, their lack of hospitality, their greed---all the sins of the sodomites as recorded by the prophets Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel.
When we should be demanding the government stop wasting money building F-35 (I think that's the name) aircraft which the Air Force says it doesn't need and it doesn't want, we remain silent. When the government provides more money for corporate welfare than it does for the welfare of human beings, we remain silent. When people are sick and dying of hunger, we would encourage the government to kill people in other lands rather than take care of the people in our land. That's what many Christians do---and it's NOT Christian.
Yes this is a thread about homosexuality. But it is important that we see why some Christians think homosexuality is evil--because again and again many of them have opposed the very things that are right, and good, and just. The things God requires of man. And that can only happen because many people ARE NOT Christian, despite the fact they go to church and perhaps give money to it.
Christianity involves ALL of life, not just me, or just you. And those with different sexual orientations are entitled to the same civil rights as anyone else. Treating people equally and with respect is all about being a Christian. Decrying the sins of others is all about practicing phariseeism.
What one omits to do for others is equally a sin with what one commits wrongly toward another. That is the great responsibility of Christians.
Most Christians today are like Cain in the Bible complaining, "Am I my brother's keeper?" You can read how well things went for him before God in Genesis.
No, according to the Bible. Since you don't believe homosexuality is a sin, then the argument doesn't apply to you. It would be like trying to convince a race car driver that racing is dangerous.
Child sexual abuse and rape also would fall under the umbrella of sexual immorality. Even criminals in prison regard ppl who commit such sins as being lower than them.
And you think a same gender couple in a loving, committed relationship/marriage is no different to child sexual abuse and rape.
"According to the Bible" owning slaves and beating them almost to death is okay. And a man raping a virgin girl is okay as long as he pays the father some money and marries her. Would you consider those things 'immoral' in the 21st century? Or do you think it's okay because that's what the Bible says?
Do you see why many people in the 21st century think what you are saying about gay and lesbian people just doesn't make much sense?
If you have read one of my previous posts I have stated I was a practising homosexual. Sure we have no control on what sex we are attracted to but we have a choice to act out on those feelings or not. I used to be a major addict of pornograhy as well. I was an addict of porn for over 20 years. With the porn addiction I was so addicted that it prevented me for doing some very important tasks in life. also I would spend a lot of time on the internet at gay single sites and it be usually for sex I often went to gay bars, also gay sex clubs. Been there done that. I also spent a lot of time trying to find a boyfriend and finding dates. Infact it was not so long ago 90% of all the people I hanged out with were gay men. I was pro gay marriage and believed that there is no way a gay person could truly change and I thought I was born that way. 99% of all my sexual experiences have been with the same sex too.
I also went to a pro gay church and lasted a few months there.
My life was also a mess too as I had mental issues and had suicidal thoughts. ( I battled this for years) Yet not so long ago I prayed for the Lord to be my personal saviour and to forgive my sins. Not long after I prayed with a group of Christians and they prayed for me and they do not know of my same sex attraction but that prayer session was very powerful impact on me. (This was not at all an exgay group by the way as I do not go to any of them) I don't have the desire to go to gay bars or strong temptations to go to sex clubs or act out. My 20 year porn addiction was no longer there as I do not have a big desire to go into porn.
Yes at times I do get tempted with same sex attractions but unlike the past these temptations do not get the hold of me. It is because the Lord always provides a way out of temptation through the work of the holy spirit.
The bible verse is so true in my situation: 1 Corinthians 10:13
No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.
Even the Lord has cured me of mental disorders and I no longer have suicidal thoughts. Something I never thought would truly happen not so long ago. Yet I realise now that with the Lord anything is possible.
I am more contented and have a peace of mind now than when I was a practising homosexual.
The Lord has given me new desires and my new desires is to get to know more and more of the Lord, to serve people. I am more concerned about what the Lord thinks about me than fellow men think of me.
It seems to me that you've replaced an addiction to sex and porn with an addiction to religious beliefs.
I do hope you realise that most gay and lesbian people are not porn and sex addicts?
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Well certainly rape is part of sexual immorality. Anything sexual activity that falls outside of God's design is sexual immorality. God designed sex as a way for a married man and woman to bond together physically and spiritually. Even a non-Christian woman will usually tell you that she needs intimacy, not just the physical sensations of sex.
Where in the bible does it say rape is immoral? Nowhere.
Quote:
As for your points about the Bible and rape, the problem is you are assuming this ancient culture operated exactly the same way as our modern society. In today's society, women are independent, marry for love and can choose their partners. In Biblical times, a woman without a husband was pretty much a death sentence or they had slavery or prostitution as means of survival. Marriages were arranged so what is better in that context, an arrangement that guarantees the security of the woman, or a becoming a prostitute? A raped woman would not be able to freely find a husband back then because virginity was highly desired.
I don't care what that culture was. The bible is supposedly teaching us how to morally act. It is a huge #fail when it comes to rape or slavery. Nothing, absolutely nothing justifies it. Don't give me that 'cultural' excuse. All it means is that you, nor any other apologist, has no means of answering how to address these horrible moral teachings.
Quote:
Also, Exodus 22:17 shows that a father ultimately decides whether his daughter is to marry the man or not.
Oh please. Not only is the daughter being treated like property, as in a slave, but the rapist still gets off by paying the dowry to the father as if she was being married.
Remember those words, 'context'. What a sick, sick, teaching. I don't give a flying fig if 'that was the culture at the time', it is wrong, it is immoral, and it is sick. Some middle east cultures still deal this way, and it was not that long ago that dowries were expected in many parts of Europe. What a horrible 'tradition'.
Well certainly rape is part of sexual immorality. Anything sexual activity that falls outside of God's design is sexual immorality. God designed sex as a way for a married man and woman to bond together physically and spiritually. Even a non-Christian woman will usually tell you that she needs intimacy, not just the physical sensations of sex.
As for your points about the Bible and rape, the problem is you are assuming this ancient culture operated exactly the same way as our modern society. In today's society, women are independent, marry for love and can choose their partners. In Biblical times, a woman without a husband was pretty much a death sentence or they had slavery or prostitution as means of survival. Marriages were arranged so what is better in that context, an arrangement that guarantees the security of the woman, or a becoming a prostitute? A raped woman would not be able to freely find a husband back then because virginity was highly desired.
Also, Exodus 22:17 shows that a father ultimately decides whether his daughter is to marry the man or not.
So you are using 'but that was the ancient culture at the time' as an excuse for rape and slavery and subjugation of women back then? But when it comes to gay and lesbian people in the 21st century, suddenly that 'ancient culture' excuse goes out the window?
Do you see why many people see this as hypocrisy and cherry-picking to support prejudice against gay and lesbian people?
Last edited by Ceist; 12-07-2014 at 02:42 PM..
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