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Here is one of my favorite verses from the Book of Mormom:
12 And now, my sons, remember, remember that it is upon the rock of our Redeemer, who is Christ, the Son of God, that ye must build your foundation; that when the devil shall send forth his mighty winds, yea, his shafts in the whirlwind, yea, when all his hail and his mighty storm shall beat upon you, it shall have no power over you to drag you down to the gulf of misery and endless wo, because of the rock upon which ye are built, which is a sure foundation, a foundation whereon if men build they cannot fall. (Helaman 5:12)
The Book of Mormon is a powerful witness of Jesus Christ and those who try to convince us otherwise either have not read it or have not read it with their eyes open to the truth. The Jews also said the Jesus cast out devils by the power of the devil. They also said He had a devil. Jesus replied that a house divided against itself cannot stand. He could not cast out devils by the power of the devil because that would be like a house divided against itself.
So it is with the Book of Mormon, it cannot be from the devil and so powerfully witness to the divinity of the Savior and Redeemer of mankind, even Jesus Christ. That would be like Satan opposing himself and a house divided cannot stand.
"we" = I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
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If its good enough for the LDS to say the same old tired thing when they come to my door, or a TV ad, web site, brouchers then its good enough for me. I don't care about "getting shot down" as you call it. LDS missionaries don't care about it, yet I don't see you objecting to that.
Ok so basically you are saying that if the Mormons can do it, then I can do it too. But a big difference is, if someone tells the Missionaries that they don't want to talk or hear them, they don't keep on badgering them. You can prove your point then drop it.
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"What you see as contributing, I see as living Christ-like" based on what Bible scripture?
That is how I feel personally.
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Don't see me on other threads? Did you even bother to look...probably not. Other threads I posted in that you missed:
Zimbabwe,
I have two favorite Bible verses:
"For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything in all creation will be able to seperate us from the Love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord" Romans 8:38-39
" For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility." Ephesians 2:14-16
The Bible is more than just a witness of Jesus, it is the actual words of Heavenly Father himself! Jesus sole purpose was to abolish the law with its commandments and regulations. To read the Bible and come away with anything other than believing that Christ crucified for my sins is the only acceptable payment for my sins, those people eyes are closed by choice or are being kept closed. To think that salvation can be accomplished any other way will not lead to eternal life.
To make such a claim that works, "doing all that you can do" Eternal Family is not a saving gospel or true hope, which all of these places the burden on one self.
It was suggested thta since I make a point, I should just drop it because the LDS missionaries don't keep on baggering. If that was true about the LDS, then the "missionary program" would have stopped along time ago, right?
I'm sorry but until Christ comes, I will speak from the Bible. The Bible will either save or crush the hearer.
Thought for corking:
Do you really think a loving God would want anyone of His children attacking another group of His children even if they might be wrong in what they believed? Do you not see that you are being just a teeny bit hypocritical? In one breath you say you love everyone and the next you're damning all Mormons and Catholics to hell??
The will of God is that the gospel of Jesus Christ be preached to evry single soul living on the face of the earth. If I didn't preach to them then I would not be doing my Fathers will.
Everyone that rejects the gospel, and our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, will perish.
The will of God is that the gospel of Jesus Christ be preached to evry single soul living on the face of the earth. If I didn't preach to them then I would not be doing my Fathers will.
Everyone that rejects the gospel, and our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, will perish.
And who are you to say who rejects Jesus Christ and who doesn't? Have you sincerely studied Mormonism and Catholicism? I know you were in the Catholic church for 25 yrs. so how can you say they are not Christian?
to the mormons here....
Explain to me how Gal 1:8-9 does not apply to Mormons???
please use the Bible for scripture since I dont believe a word from your "other" books,
to the mormons here....
Explain to me how Gal 1:8-9 does not apply to Mormons???
please use the Bible for scripture since I dont believe a word from your "other" books,
It does apply... and your point is?.... Read a couple of verses prior, Gal 1:6-9 and it becomes evident that even at the time of Paul, an apostasy (turning away) was already beginning to happen from the truth. Other gospels were being taught, even at that early time period after the resurrection of Christ. By the 1800's, important truths that Christ and/or His apostles taught had been lost and/or were misunderstood. It is our belief that Christ's church (as well as His Gospel) as originally founded and taught was no longer present in its full form.
That changed in 1820 when Joseph Smith went into a small grove of trees, praying to know the truth of which church to join and was commanded to not only join none of them, but was told that he would subsequently be an instrument in the hands of God in restoring many truths that had previously been lost from the earth.
The "other books" are revelations in our day and age that add clarification and support to the truths already taught in the Bible and are from God, as is the Bible. One of these, the Book of Mormon is an extremely powerful witness as to the Divinity of Jesus Christ as the Son of God and as Savior and Lord.
The fulness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ has been restored to the earth again and I am thankful for that, as I believe that "other gospels," perhaps even more so now than in the days of Paul, are being taught throughout the earth.
Romans 8:38-39 is a great scripture and often quoted. Aren't the ancient saints lucky to have had an apostle to minister to them and address their unique problems and challenges?
We are also that lucky--for God has called prophets and apostles in these latter days.
You have quoted the a verse from Ephesians. Paul was talking about the law of Circumcision and how Christ brought together the uncircumcised and the circumcised together, ie the gentiles into the house of Israel. He was not talking about the commandments of God--such as the Ten Commandments or the commandments taught by Jesus on the mount. Paul spends the rest of his epistle telling the Ephesians to keep the commandments of God and teaching them to live in all holiness.
Jesus did no less in the last hours of His life. If ye love me, He said, keep my commandments. Abide in the true vine which is Christ--and how do we abide in Christ? By keeping the commandments--"ye are my friends if ye do whatsoever I command you." "If ye keep my commandments ye shall abide in my love." "Go ye into all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father and of the Son and the Holy Ghost, teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I command you, and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen" "If ye continue in my word then ye are my disciples indeed." ---and on and on.
James the apostle testified that "faith without works is dead" John the apostle wrote that we will all stand before God to be judged of our WORKS. Paul said as much as well when he said to the Corinthians that we will all stand before the judgement seat of Christ to be judged according to the things done while in the body.
And the prophet Amulek in the Book of Mormon has said the same thing:
37 And I say unto you again that he cannot save them in their sins; for I cannot deny his word, and he hath said that no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of heaven; therefore, how can ye be saved, except ye inherit the kingdom of heaven? Therefore, ye cannot be saved in your sins.
40 And he shall come into the world to redeem his people; and he shall take upon him the transgressions of those who believe on his name; and these are they that shall have eternal life, and salvation cometh to none else.
41 Therefore the wicked remain as though there had been no redemption made, except it be the loosing of the bands of death; for behold, the day cometh that all shall rise from the dead and stand before God, and be judged according to their works.
to the mormons here....
Explain to me how Gal 1:8-9 does not apply to Mormons???
please use the Bible for scripture since I dont believe a word from your "other" books,
love the snide undertones in the post. i can feel the genuine respect and desire for mutual love and support. but i think you put the roll-your-eyes quotation marks in the wrong spot. where you have them, you are signfying the fact that you doubt that they are other books, which in fact they are. really. different name. different content. different authors. where i think you intended to put the quotation marks would have been on the word 'books', but that again runs the problem that they are, in fact, books. so what i think you really meant to say was something along the lines of, 'since i don't believe a word from your other "scriptures". would that be the case?
second, whether you do or do not believe in the "other" books does not really matter. we do. that is what we base the belief on. if you don't accept that, then you don't accept that. fine by me. but you can't tell me that all of a sudden i can't use the books (including the bible) that define my faith in order to explain that faith, but that i have to use sources. kinda paradoxical. you would be hard-pressed to explain your beliefs in christianity to a jew that said you could not utilize the new testament. you can still do it, as the old testament is still the word of God, but you would be unable to connect the pieces, specifically with regards to 'proving' yourself to the jew.
galatians 1: 8-9 tells the believers to reject everything but the true gospel. now, assuming that the mormons believe that they have the true gospel (hmm. probable...), then it is not too far-fetched to say that the mormons believe in this scripture just as much as you, and that therefore they see the scripture applying just as much to *any* of God's word, including that which was not bound into what we call the bible by later councils.
which brings me to the next point, that is the illogicality of trying to claim that the passage refers to anything other than that which is compiled into the holy bible. for as you know, the bible was not conceived at this time, and in fact, not even all of the beloved passages of the bible had been written at this point, so there is really no reason in even waling down this round again for the thousandth time.
ok. that said, i think that a lot of your (and that of others) misconception about the b.o.m. comes from the idea that mormons do not value the bible. if you had only read chik tracts and anti-mormon websites then i could see how you come to that conclusion, along with the idea that we have horns, practice demon worship, infant sacrifice, and community orgies--all of which is only true for utah mormons.
just kidding. mormons place great value upon the bible, and even upon the reformationist movement. without said movement and the bible that inspired it, joseph smith would never have pondered the questions that led him to find the truth of Jesus Christ and God the Father.
the bible is the word of God, and as elder holland said yesterday in conference, it is always listed first among the holy books which God has given us (specific order is holy bible, book of mormon, doctrine and covenants, pearl of great price).
the second thing that i think gets in the way of most people even giving the mormons the time of day is the fact that a whole lot of you think that we dismiss Christ as just a 'cool teacher'.
there is not really anything i can say to that except, ok... Christ is the center of our religion. j smith was just a prophet, same as john, same as noah, same as jonah. good guys. not God. as i said earlier, we believe in the bible as the word of God. i am not sure that there are *any* religions out there that believe that the bible is the word of God that do not accept Christ as their personal Savior.
i am not sure if any of you have ever asked a mormon for his/her testimony, asked what they believe in, asked where their salvation comes from, asked Who is the author of that salvation, etc. if anyone wants to ask me, feel free. if you are going to take the time to ask though, take the time to listen. i hate the threads that start out, 'what do mormons believe?' and then continually decide to ignore what we say we believe in and tell us that we are wrong, that we really believe in (see above paragraph about demonic ceremonies, growing horns, etc).
i hope that this illuminates something of our beliefs.
if you don't believe a word of our "other" books, then you wouldn't believe in Christ, the resurrection, the atonement, the fall of adam, the creation, the existence of God the Father, of the Holy Ghost, the devil, the prophets, the scattering of israel, or even the bible, since they are all fairly hefty points of doctrine in those "other" books.
aaron out.
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