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People always want factual proof when it comes to the Bible. I used to be skeptical before I gave my heart to Jesus Christ. My experience with Him has changed all of that, and I now trust His Word 100%- even when I don't completely understand it.
Amen ! And it should be for all Christian's !
Yet as one can read many post in this forum who cast away what the do and don't want to believe. Mocking God's word, Truth is a serious disposition to be in ones life.
It is very sad as there will be many in the end standing before the Throne of God finding out how they exchanged the truth for a lie....
People always want factual proof when it comes to the Bible.
But the Bible doesn't say one way or the other whether the thief had been baptized. My question has nothing to do with faith and acceptance of what the Bible says. I merely pointed out that you were assuming something about the thief that we can't possibly know.
But the Bible doesn't say one way or the other whether the thief had been baptized. My question has nothing to do with faith and acceptance of what the Bible says. I merely pointed out that you were assuming something about the thief that we can't possibly know.
He was dying on the cross- I don't believe he came down for a baptism. Regardless, he went to Paradise with Christ- which is what we should all hope for.
He was dying on the cross- I don't believe he came down for a baptism. Regardless, he went to Paradise with Christ- which is what we should all hope for.
Wow. Gotta love that sarcasm. I don't believe "he came down for a baptism" either. (What makes people come up with these bizarre responses anyway?) He did refer to Jesus as "Lord," and we have no indication that he and Jesus had a very long conversation while they were both hanging from crosses dying. The fact is that he knew of Jesus and at least enough of His teachings to address Him as "Lord" and to realize that He had the power over death and the ability to save. He could very well have heard Jesus preach over the previous three years, and he could have very well been baptized. Baptized people do sin, you know. There are many people on death row right now who were at one time good citizens and believers in Christ.
Secondly, Paradise is not the same thing as Heaven. Jesus said He'd see him in Paradise that day, which I'm sure He did. On the other hand, three days later, Jesus told Mary that He hadn't yet been to His Father in Heaven. If He had been to Paradise but not to Heaven, they are clearly not the same place. Paradise is where the righteous and the repentant sinners await the resurrection. Jesus did not tell the thief, "Today I will be with you in Heaven."
I'm well aware that there are practicing Christians on death row- I did time in prison myself. That is what it took to wake me up. You make alot of good points. Baptized people sin- just like non-baptized people do. We should be baptized if possible because God says to, and to indicate to others the change in our hearts. I do not believe baptism in itself "saves" anyone, however.
Did I say it was? No. I merely stated that Jesus commanded us to be baptized and said that it is insufficient merely to call upon His name...
Clarify please. Are you saying that you did not say that but you are saying Jesus did, and therefore agreeing with the notion that water baptism is necessary for salvation?
Incidentally, I would like the scriptural reference where Jesus said that it is insufficient merely to call upon His name to be saved, because I cannot fathom where He would say such a thing when over and over again, He said believing in Him was how we are saved.
The closest thing would be this one:
Mark 16:16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
I do point out that the damnation part was not believing in Him; He never said that not being baptized in Him was how any one was damned.
I say it is an assumption to believe that baptism here is about water baptism when Jesus baptizes us with the Holy Ghost when we believe; it is an automatic thing as promised which is why the damnation was only on by not believing in Him. If that was the reference, it is sorely misread & misapplied since there are too mant references that states how we are saved or even born again simply by believing in Him.
Quote:
if you're going to disregard His commandments. And all the scriptures in the world aren't going to change that.
Again, please show the verse that says believing in Him is not enough or that calling upon His name is insufficient for salvation.
I am only referring to His commandments in how we are saved; I am not addressing the commandments in how saved believers are to live as His disciples which is by faith in the Son of God as only He as our Good Shepherd can enable us to follow Him.
"... not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence."
'but' is used to set two things in contrast.
John's baptism was with water. Christ's baptism is with spirit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorInSpirit
... Then answered Peter, 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Keep reading.
Water was used by Philip on the eunuch. Then water was never used again.
11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
Clarify please. Are you saying that you did not say that but you are saying Jesus did, and therefore agreeing with the notion that water baptism is necessary for salvation?
Incidentally, I would like the scriptural reference where Jesus said that it is insufficient merely to call upon His name to be saved, because I cannot fathom where He would say such a thing when over and over again, He said believing in Him was how we are saved.
I'm expecting house guests in a few hours and don't have time to post much now, but here is the passage I was thinking of:
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 7:21)
I'm well aware that there are practicing Christians on death row- I did time in prison myself. That is what it took to wake me up. You make alot of good points. Baptized people sin- just like non-baptized people do. We should be baptized if possible because God says to, and to indicate to others the change in our hearts. I do not believe baptism in itself "saves" anyone, however.
I don't believe that baptism in itself saves anyone either, just so that you know.
I don't believe that baptism in itself saves anyone either, just so that you know.
I know we will never agree about this Katz because I do not believe in ANY magical thinking. Baptism is a relatively harmless ritual that has symbolic importance as a predecessor and clue to the actual process within us (water of life) that develops and matures our Spirit for rebirth upon our death. But there is no magical value in it whatsoever . . just as there is none for any other ritual. Its only actual real world effect is to get you wet.
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(What makes people come up with these bizarre responses anyway?) He did refer to Jesus as "Lord," and we have no indication that he and Jesus had a very long conversation while they were both hanging from crosses dying. The fact is that he knew of Jesus and at least enough of His teachings to address Him as "Lord" and to realize that He had the power over death and the ability to save. He could very well have heard Jesus preach over the previous three years, and he could have very well been baptized. Baptized people do sin, you know. There are many people on death row right now who were at one time good citizens and believers in Christ. 
