Was America founded for religious "freedom" (beliefs, worship, experience)

[openmike]

Freedom was at least within reach and rightly so even within the wishful plans of Columbus's voyage. Columbus a " closet" Jew transported many Jews escaping persecution from Spain. The Nina Pinta and Santa Maria exploration voyage was not funded directly from queen Isabella but by independent taxation of Jews.

[janelle144]

Our country was founded on freedom, religious being one of them. People could worship as they pleased and many came here to escape countries where they could not have that freedom. Saying that, it didn't make it a perfect world for freedoms, religious and other kinds, but that is the standard and our laws back us up in it.

[NT Fellowship]

I once again address the question: Was America Founded for Religious Freedom?
The majority of Founding Fathers were Freemasons, Deists, and "free thinkers." Though George Washington and many others attended religious services and were even members of specific churches, these were churches which allowed Freemasonry in their rolls.
The nation's Presidents have all been Freemasons or Skull and Bones (an associate society with Freemasons). Many, many leaders in various areas of society are (have been, if dead) Freemasons:
Tv, movie stars, movie makers, musicians and singers (Timothy Hutton; Peter Sellers, Red Skelton, Harpo Marx; Cecile B. DeMille, Louis B. Mayer; Walt Disney; John Wayne; Roy Rogers & Dale Evans; Nat King Cole; Richard Pryor; Brad Paisley; Roy Clarke, Mel Blanc...),
Sports heroes (Sugar Ray Robinson;Willie Mays...)
Writers (Mark Twain; John Steinbeck; Laura Ingalls Wilder...),
Religious leaders (including many of those who established the Southern Baptist Convention--and many of their current leaders; Robert Schueller; Norman Vincent Peale; Joseph Smith--fathered Mormonism; Charles Taze Russell--founder of the Jehovah's Witnesses... ),
National heroes and politicians (Davy Crockett, Meriwether Lewis; Wyatt Earp; astronauts John Glenn, Virgil Grissom, Buzz Aldrin, James Irwin and Edgar Mitchell; Martin Luther King, Jesse Jackson; Jr, Strom Thurmond, Thurgood Marshall; John Marshall; Gen Douglas MacArthur...)
Wealthy Business men (Dave Thomas--of Wendy's fame; Harland Sanders--KFC founder; J.C. Penney; Eberhard Farber--Farber Pencil Co
Freemasonry isn't just a good ole boy beer-drinking, helping-the-community type of secret society. They have a pagan basis and their vows enter into this secret brotherhood. Some masonic lodges claim to be 'Christian' or 'Jewish' or whatever; but the basic practices, symbols, etc. of all Freemasons are occult-based.
It is popular to say that Freemasonry is not a religion. However, as in all religions, Freemasonry:
1. Defines God as The Great Architect of the Universe. (No atheists are allowed; therefore all must bow to this god and accept that It is.) They also call Masonry "divine." This is religious.
2. The "all seeing eye" is one of the symbols of this GA. The all seeing eye is a symbol of ancient paganism.
3. While denying religion, Freemasons practice philosophy, a specific morality and aim to reach "enlightenment."
4. While denying they are a religion, they claim to belong to "the Craft" -- an ancient term for those who practice magick and witchcraft.
5. Has specific hymns that are sung during parts of their meeting.
6. Identify with Egyptian/Babylonian/Occultic beliefs and practices (hence: Isis & Horus, other ancient gods/goddesses are esteemed by them).
7. The women's Freemason group is the Eastern Star, and their symbol is a Pentagram; one of many occult symbols.
8. More than one of the funeral hymns of the Masons includes the thought that the dead are in the Lodge in the sky, connected with those below; these dead are "immortal and unseen..." Ain't religious?
9. Masons use the phrase, "As above, so below." This is an occultic phrase; which is used in witchcraft, satanism, and Hindu and Buddhist religions. (Yin yang is a visual of this.) Quite religious!
10. Reincarnation is accepted within Freemasonry. Another religious tenant.
11. "Spirituality is the life of Masonry." This is a religious statement.
ETC.
So...was America established for freedom of religion? If you mean religion directed and dictated by Freemasonry, you'd be pretty accurate.

A few references "from the horse's mouth":
Questions and Answers
The Freemason's Hymnal, compiled by Waldemar Malmene, 1875 ************************* ************************* ******** See #27 for reference that Masonry is "divine." #34 and #35 Funeral hymn.
Grand Lodge AUM | Spiritual Freemasonry

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by NT Fellowship

I once again address the question: Was America Founded for Religious Freedom?
The majority of Founding Fathers were Freemasons, Deists, and "free thinkers."

Among Freemasons Deism is fairly common.

I am not sure what you mean by 'free thinkers'.

Freemasonry requires a stated belief in a single Deity. Which is why membership is open to Jew, Christian and Muslim.

... Though George Washington and many others attended religious services and were even members of specific churches, these were churches which allowed Freemasonry in their rolls.
The nation's Presidents have all been Freemasons or Skull and Bones (an associate society with Freemasons).

'Skull and Bones' is not associated in any context with Freemasonry. 'Skull and Bones' is a college frat.

... Freemasonry isn't just a good ole boy beer-drinking, helping-the-community type of secret society.

Alcohol is strictly forbidden within most lodges in the USA.

Any 'beer-drinking' would be done elsewhere.

... They have a pagan basis and their vows enter into this secret brotherhood. Some masonic lodges claim to be 'Christian' or 'Jewish' or whatever; but the basic practices, symbols, etc. of all Freemasons are occult-based.

No. Blue lodges do not make any claims to be Jewish or Christian or Muslim. Freemasonry allows men to become members who are from any of those Deist groups.

I must assume that you must be defining 'occult' as worshiping a single creator Deity, in which case, ...

... 2. The "all seeing eye" is one of the symbols of this GA. The all seeing eye is a symbol of ancient paganism.

The eye has been a symbol in nearly all ancient societies.

... 4. While denying they are a religion, they claim to belong to "the Craft" -- an ancient term for those who practice magick and witchcraft.

Never heard that before.

Nobody owns exclusive rights to any symbol. Most of our symbols have been used many times through history by many different groups.

[travric]

Re: the 'intolerance portion of the OP post

You know it can be said that America from the start was a country chock full of religiosity. Europeans who came here saw that America was a very religious country...even moreso than Europe according to Robert Baird a Presbyterian minister who was here between 1835 and
1843. Tocqueville noted that 'there was no country in the world where the Christian religion retained a greater influence over the souls of men than America'.

But what is interesting is that Europeans also saw that just because there were competing sects in America it did not show that those groups rejected each other's creeds. A Calvinist pastor during the 1850's said, ' ...So far as we have been able to judge there exists harmony and good feeling between all the evangelical denominations. The pastors and members of all various religious communities even among those most widely differing in church polity speak mutually of each other with much kindness and esteem'.

From the foregoing it would appear that religious tolerance indeed did occur in early American society. And it eventually became part of the American way of life for posterity. And as Tocqueville said ' the whole nation....felt that religion was indispensable to the maintenance of republican institutions'. And all this occurred without the absolute link of Church tied with the State and no governmental support for any particular sect.

[Jerwade]

Was America founded for religious "freedom?"
Freedom from religion would be more accurate.

[mensaguy]

Once again, we have a member post a number of incorrect statements about Freemasonry. I'm sorry this happens. It casts a good organization in a bad light, and makes several accusations that have been known to be false for many, many years.

Thank you, Submariner, for your post. I'm sure ptsum will be along soon to include his thoughts. Both of these Masons have longer and more diverse experiences than I.

Originally Posted by NT Fellowship

I once again address the question: Was America Founded for Religious Freedom?

The majority of the Founding Fathers were not Freemasons, although a substantial number of them were. Nobody has said in this thread just exactly what a "Founding Father" is, but these facts are still applicable: Nine of the 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence were Freemasons. Thirteen of the 39 signers of the US Constitution were Masons. (In addition, although most wouldn't call them founding fathers, 33 of the 74 generals in the Continental Army were Masons.)

This is completely false on several levels. Certainly George Washington was a Mason, but John Adams and Thomas Jefferson were not, and John Quincy Adams was a leader of the Anti-Mason Party. Fourteen of the 44 Presidents have been Freemasons. Several Presidents have been members of Skull & Bones at Yale, but Skull & Bones is completely unrelated to Freemasonry.

I don't know where this list came from. I see a number of names that are known Freemasons, but, since it is a "fraternity," there are no women in mainstream Freemasonry, so Dale Evans and Laura Ingalls Wilder were not members. I don't think there were many of the leaders of the Southern Baptist Convention that were members since the SBC did not allow members to join Masonic lodges for many years.

Masonry isn't a "good ole boy beer-drinking" club at all. Since Temperance is one of the virtues taught to members, it makes no sense to even make such an accusation. In many places, alcohol is not even allowed in Masonic buildings. As a matter of fact, Temperance is taken so seriously that, at one time, a question was raised regarding the membership application of a man who was employed at a liquor store.

There is absolutely no pagan basis to Masonry, and it would be clearly unmasonic for any lodge to claim to be "Christian" or "Jewish." This is so fundamental that anyone with any knowledge of the fraternity knows it. Masons accept members from any religion, and, since saying such a thing might make a Buddhist or Muslim member uncomfortable, it would never happen. I don't know enough about the occult to make any comment on that, but perhaps Submariner or ptsum can comment about your strange accusation that Freemasonry is "occult-based."

No, that's not at all correct. Did Freemasonry have an influence? Absolutely. The fact that Masonry welcomes members from ANY faith certainly had shown those Founding Fathers who were Masons that religious diversity was a positive thing for society. Another thing that you failed to mention was that Freemasons have always conducted their business democratically. All members are equal, and issues are voted on via secret ballot with established rules and procedures. Knowing that this method worked to keep the peace and harmony in the lodge certainly influenced the Founders to incorporate this into the founding documents of the country.

------------------


A few references "from the horse's mouth":
Questions and Answers
The Freemason's Hymnal, compiled by Waldemar Malmene, 1875 ************************************************** ******** See #27 for reference that Masonry is "divine." #34 and #35 Funeral hymn.
Grand Lodge AUM | Spiritual Freemasonry

Incidentally, Masonry is divided up into lodges. Each lodge is charted by a "Grand Lodge," which, in the United States, has jurisdiction only within a state (or the District of Columbia). There are Grand Lodges in the Provinces of Canada, in the UK, France, and many other countries. Each Grand Lodge is independent of all the others. While there are many similarities, there are also aspects that differ from one to another, and there may be aspects that are unique to the operation of only one Grand Lodge.

[Wardendresden]

Originally Posted by travric

Re: the 'intolerance portion of the OP post

You know it can be said that America from the start was a country chock full of religiosity. Europeans who came here saw that America was a very religious country...even moreso than Europe according to Robert Baird a Presbyterian minister who was here between 1835 and
1843. Tocqueville noted that 'there was no country in the world where the Christian religion retained a greater influence over the souls of men than America'.

But what is interesting is that Europeans also saw that just because there were competing sects in America it did not show that those groups rejected each other's creeds. A Calvinist pastor during the 1850's said, ' ...So far as we have been able to judge there exists harmony and good feeling between all the evangelical denominations. The pastors and members of all various religious communities even among those most widely differing in church polity speak mutually of each other with much kindness and esteem'.

From the foregoing it would appear that religious tolerance indeed did occur in early American society. And it eventually became part of the American way of life for posterity. And as Tocqueville said ' the whole nation....felt that religion was indispensable to the maintenance of republican institutions'. And all this occurred without the absolute link of Church tied with the State and no governmental support for any particular sect.

There was quite a struggle in the colonies and through the early part of the United States to obtain religious tolerance. That is NOT how the colonies began. Case in point which I will summarize but you can read more about is Roger Williams.

Williams, and English clergyman migrated to Massachusetts in 1630 and was one of the first to tell us why. He left England to escape religious intolerance only to be faced with the same intolerance on American shores in the New World. He was the very first to write about the need for a "wall of separation" between church and state (not Thomas Jefferson as many assume.

Williams was in his late twenties when the religious leaders of Massachusetts Bay Colony recognize him as the bright and intelligent Cambridge-educated cleric that he was. Less than a year after arriving in Plymouth he was appointed "elder" with both religious and political authority. Four years later he was banished from Massachusetts and forced to flee the colony because he would not conform to the religious values enforced by government.

The life of Roger Williams clearly illustrates the problem when religious and political powers unite. Almost invariably those powers work together to silence dissent and crush all opposition. Williams became a thorn in the side of the Massachusetts Bay Colony and its leaders. He condemned the elders when they were guilty of religious, racial, or political intolerance. He objected when they stole land from the Indians. He protested when they withheld the right to vote from unconverted colonists. He dissented when civil crimes were prosecuted under biblical laws.

Instead of keeping quiet he preached and taught "that no person should be restrained from nor constrained to, any worship or ministry except in the accordance with the dictates of his own conscience." (Amasa Mason Eaton, "Roger Williams, the Founder of Providence--the Pioneer of Religious Liberty, Providence: E.L. Freeman, 1908 [microfilm] quoted in a brief essay by Ronald Bruce Meyer, "Roger Williams Banished (1635): Separation of Church and State" Cyber sex & free games for adults in Skype porn chat rooms

Williams later bought land from the Narragansett Indians and founded a sanctuary for dissenters like himself who refused to live under religious and political oppression. In 1644 William's sanctuary was chartered as Rhode Island, and as long as Williams lived that new colony, built on absolute separation of church and state, continued to be a safe place for all people including the Narragansett Indians.

Having experienced intolerance in both England and Massachusetts Williams wrote a letter using a simple analogy to describe the necessary distance between "garden" (church) and "wilderness" (state) as "a hedge or wall of separation." (Roger Williams in "Mr. cotton's Letter Lately Printed, Examined and Answered," London 1644, in Reuben Aldridge guild, ed., The Complete Writings of Roger Williams [New York: Russell & Russell, 1963] vol. 1, p. 108.

Fundamentalist Christians today are using every method they can to declare the separation of church and state as a false doctrine.

D. James Kennedy said, "The great misunderstanding of the 'separation of church and state' is [that it is] closer in spirit and in letter of the law of the old Soviet Union than it is to the spirit and letter of the law, actions and writings of the founders of this country." (James Kennedy with Gary Newcombe, What If America Were Christian Once Again (Thomas Nelson Publishers, 2003, pp.4-5.

James Dobson says, "The separation of church and state is not in the Constitution. Liberals had to contrive the basis for these things and then they talk about them as though they were ensconced in the writings of our forefathers." (James Dobson, "Restoring the Foundations: Repealing Judicial Tyranny," Focus on the Family's Family.Org.)

Joyce Meyer, TV evangelist lambasted the separation of church and state as "really a deception from Satan." ("The Rise of the Religious Right in the Republican Party," a public information project from TheeocracyWatch.org, Separation of Church and State

And finally, from the 2002 Texas Republican Party Platform was this promise: "Our Party pledges to do everything within its power to dispel the myth of separation of church and state."

The reason for the avowed enmity of the religious right (and those in right wing politics) isn't that the principle of separation of church and state denies them their right to be guided by their spiritual and moral values when in the political process. It is this principle that is the only thing standing in the way of forcing THEIR spiritual and moral values on the rest of us.

They ignore history and even change it in a desire to return to the early beginning of the colonies when repression of religious freedom was more often than not, the norm.

[nateswift]

I think the point should be that there was a fair amount of religious intolerance in the background of what we know as our country, but the document by which the country was established was careful to ascertain that it would not be maintained as a characteristic of its government when it came under scrutiny.

[DewDropInn]

ALL presidents were Freemasons or Skull and Crossbones? Ummm... no. For starters.... John Kennedy (Harvard, not Yale) was not a member of either group.

Obviously fact-checking (not to mention the truth) is of little or no importance to the nutty theories/conspiracy crowd.