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I visited many 'Christian' churches over the last 12 years. I came away shaking my head. Their beliefs are 'all over the map'. Water Baptism was one of the 'items' I found disturbing. Some of the reasons, are as follows;
1) Some baptise infants.
2) Some baptise into 'their religion', and require a person from a different Christian denomination, to be baptised again into their own denomination.
3) Some baptise 'the dead'.
If I tell you, that I have been baptised with water, what does that mean to you, without me explaining the details behind the baptism? Has water baptism been defiled to the point, that it is no longer required? When you get baptised, are you being baptised by Satan? How do you know where the minister stands with God?
I visited many 'Christian' churches over the last 12 years. I came away shaking my head. Their beliefs are 'all over the map'. Water Baptism was one of the 'items' I found disturbing. Some of the reasons, are as follows;
1) Some baptise infants.
2) Some baptise into 'their religion', and require a person from a different Christian denomination, to be baptised again into their own denomination.
3) Some baptise 'the dead'.
I'm not familiar with any Christian churches that do this.
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If I tell you, that I have been baptised with water, what does that mean to you, without me explaining the details behind the baptism? Has water baptism been defiled to the point, that it is no longer required? When you get baptised, are you being baptised by Satan? How do you know where the minister stands with God?
Scripture does not say that water baptism is required for salvation. Jesus commanded we be baptized, and we should...but it is not for salvation.
Baptism should be a open show of your faith simply stating that you take you walk serious with Christ. This is why infant baptisms make zero sense to me as a infant has no say so in the matter and can grow up to be the biggest devil regardless of being baptized.
I agree, but again, WHO/WHICH DENOMINATION would you recommend?
There are many denominations that are excellent. I'm a pastor in a non-denominational Evangelical church...but I interviewed/candidated for a few different churches. One was an Evangelical Free church, one a Baptist, and another a non-denominational church. I would have fit with any of them, doctrinally.
Baptism should be a open show of your faith simply stating that you take you walk serious with Christ. This is why infant baptisms make zero sense to me as a infant has no say so in the matter and can grow up to be the biggest devil regardless of being baptized.
well, the water part of baptism is not simply a symbolic washing but also symbolic of having "died with Christ" to sin, buried (in the water) and rises up now "alive" in Christ---a new creation, literally "born again" through water and the Holy Spirit. some regard baptism is a sacrament that gives special grace that actually takes away the inherited sin of Adam and Eve transmitted to all people thereafter ("original sin") of any age and condition from birth as well as any sins of other sorts committed afterward. early in the history of Christianity, some people would actually postpone baptism until they were in danger of death to get the full benefit of the sacrament (this is what the first Christian emperor Constantine did!!!). others regard baptism as more of a rite of active public commitment to Christ and a repentance and reformation of life and not necessarily a source of special grace in and of itself. however baptism is regarded and whatever it's effects, the majority of Christians accept that Christ said that Christians should be baptized" in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit" and therefore do so at some point. some churches (like the Catholic Church) also believe in a "baptism of blood" when people not baptized in the normal way but come to faith in Christ and are killed for that faith (think some of the original Christian martyrs for example) and receive all the benefits of the sacrament through that holy death. Another kind of baptism is the "baptism of desire" where someone receives the gift (=grace) of faith, wants to become a member of Christ's Church/belong to Him but dies before being able to receive the sacrament. many Christian Churches believe that while baptism is the "ordinary" means of joining the church ("the mystical body of Christ) and becoming a Christian in the fullest sense and thus in some way necessary to salvation, most would also say that the grace and mercy of God are not necessarily in any ways limited to it (hence the baptism of desire and of blood). hope this makes some sense.
Last edited by georgeinbandonoregon; 01-30-2015 at 02:53 PM..
Reason: more info
I'm not familiar with any Christian churches that do this.
You're pretty uninformed then. The largest Christian Church in the world today baptizes infants.
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Scripture does not say that water baptism is required for salvation. Jesus commanded we be baptized, and we should...but it is not for salvation.
What is it for then?
It's a commandment, isn't it? In John 15:10, Jesus said, "If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love." Maybe you're saying that we'll be saved regardless of whether we're baptized, but that being saved is not the same thing as abiding in His love.
It's the will of God, isn't it? In Matthew 7:21, Jesus said, "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." Maybe you're saying that we'll be saved regardless of whether we're baptized, but that being saved is not the same thing as entering into the kingdom of heaven.
Being baptized is obeying Christ, isn't it? In Hebrews 5:9, we're told that "And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." Maybe you're saying that we can be saved regardless of whether we're baptized, but that being saved is not the same thing as...
Uh, wait. Something's wrong here. He is the author of salvation unto all them that obey him. He is not the author of salvation unto all them that don't!
How do you interpret this John 3:5? Jesus answered, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." I hope you're not going to tell me that being born of water means nothing more than being born, period, because that would be a really, really lame answer.
And finally, in Mark 16:16, He says, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." How, after reading this verse, can you claim that scripture does not say that water baptism is required for salvation?
Baptism should be a open show of your faith simply stating that you take you walk serious with Christ. This is why infant baptisms make zero sense to me as a infant has no say so in the matter and can grow up to be the biggest devil regardless of being baptized.
Yes, baptism is making a public demonstration of one's faith which an infant can Not do.
Jesus was Not baptized as an infant but around age 30
Jesus was fully under the water at baptism.
According to Matthew 28 vs 19,20 Christian baptism is still a requirement.
As for those already dead - including the dead before Jesus died - John 3 v 13; Acts 2 v 34 - Jesus' ransom covers MANY or the majority of mankind - Matthew 20 v 28 - and thus the dead are freed or acquitted from sin - Romans 6 v 7 - which does Not mean now innocent, but that since we can Not resurrect oneself or another we need someone to do that for us. Jesus can and will. So, except for those committing the unforgivable sin - Matthew 12 v 32; Hebrews 6 vs 4-6 - most of mankind will be resurrected back to healthy physical life on earth during Jesus' coming 1000-year kingdom rulership over earth. While only those of Revelation 20 v 6 have a first or earlier resurrection to heavenly life with Christ in heaven to reign over earth for a thousand years - Rev. 5 vs 9,10; 2 v 10
I only know of one group that does this. Could you share with us the church you visited that did this?
No. I visited so many different congregations, that I can't remember 'which one did what'. I simply was made aware of these practices, which really bothered me. My own son was baptised in infancy (40 years ago) in a church in Espanola, Ontario, Canada, and I don't remember the name of that church, either. My son became a Christian in his early teens, later, in Geraldton, Ontario.
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