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Heart_song and myself offer a good contrast of a Fundamentalist and (for lack of a better definition) a Liberal Christian. I consider myself a Fundamentalist and obviously Heart-Song would be the Liberal here. While searching the Internet I found no true antonym for a Fundamentalist so no disrespect intended for the word 'liberal.'
I'll break Heart_Song's points up into categories.
1. Black and white thinking. I wouldn't say that a Fundamentalist is strictly a "black and white" thinker. That is a stereotype and most people probably think of Jerry Falwell when they hear the term Fundamentalist. I read the Word daily and but I also want to know how other people of Faith have dealt with life's difficult issues. I read CS Lewis, Charles Spurgeon, Jonathan Edwards, Matthew Henry, John Bunyan, GK Chesterton, George MacDonald, Jim George (Man after God's own heart), O.S Hawkins (The Jesus Code), Thomas Aquinas (Summa Theologica is a masterpiece!), John Eldredge (Wild at Heart), St Francis De Sales (Best Works), Billy Graham, Randy Alcorn, Kyle Idleman, Moses Maimonides, Gerald Schroeder, etc.
I think most Fundamentalist will confess to having an insatiable desire for knowledge and (more importantly) wisdom. Living a life that is an acceptable sacrifice to Christ is not easy! It is really helpful to gain insights into complex, spiritual issues. For the fundamentalist though, if the answers contradict the intent of the scriptures then we have to side with God's Word.
2. The Holy Spirit is EVERYTHING to a true Fundamentalist. He fills us with the power and love of Jesus Christ. He is the One who helps us to hear God's Voice. He gives us spiritual eyes to see the path of righteousness. Spiritual ears so we can hear God whisper to our minds. He will always bear witness for or against any choice if we will pay attention. He will say "this is the way, walk ye in it." We know when we are in a right relationship with Him because we will have peace and joy in our hearts. Since God is not the only One to whisper to us we must test the spirits. God's Word is the best way for us to do so.
3. Paul and women. As a fundamentalist, here is what I gather from 1 Corinthians 14. Paul gives his guidance. He didn't say the Lord decrees such and such. So, you need to weigh the advantages and disadvantages. I can't speak for the Apostle but my experience with women is that once a woman is put in charge or given a position of authority then the other women almost immediately dislike her. I've had female bosses before and had no problem with working for them. But typically, the women under her are held to a very high standard and I've seen it get ugly time and time again. Drama in the work place is bad enough. The Church should be free of that.
In the household the woman was to be subservient to the man but for that you have to blame Eve. (Genesis 3:16). Eve cursed all women when she was the first to fall prey to deceit. Of course, a man has an even greater responsibility because he is to love the woman as Christ loves His Church. Better or worse, sickness or in health, rich or poor. When that scale is tipped the other way with the woman ruling the man then the marriage often fails. As did mine. Not that it was all the fault of my ex. I made more than my share of mistakes.
4. Abominable deeds. The very fact that the early Church Fathers and prophets did not leave out all the ugliness that took place (murder, rape, incest, slavery, annihilation, etc) confirms the authenticity of the Bible as the Council of Nicea decided what was important. If they were just trying to promote Judea-Christian values (Old and New Testament) wouldn't it make sense to leave that stuff out? God may have seemed mean to you in the Old Testament but that should serve as a warning. He is a Holy, Jealous God who will pour His wrath on those who defy Him. If you're talking about the civilizations that God told Israel to destroy then you should probably read a bit more of the Bible. Those nations in the Promised Land were guilty of some very heinous deeds. They would routinely sacrifice their children to Molech and Baal. (Leviticus 18 - 20, 2 Kings 23:10, and Jeremiah 32:35). You are concerned for those whom the Israelites put to the sword but what about the souls of innocent baby's that cry out to the Lord? Don't they deserve justice from a righteous God?
In Genesis 15:16 God (or rather Jesus in a Theophany) told Abraham that his people would not inherit the land for 4 generations because the sins of the locals had not yet reached their full measure. God is merciful and long suffering. Again in Genesis 18:16-33) God (or rather Jesus) allowed Abraham to plead for the lives of those in Sodom and Gomorrah. He asked if 50 righteous men could be found if God would not punish them. Abraham even pleaded God down to 10 men and God accepted the terms. But we know that did not happen. The people of those cities were destroyed for their wickedness. The outcry of innocents was too much for the Lord to bear anymore.
People get so caught up with the image of the sweet Baby Jesus, of the healer of the sick and crippled, and the Lamb of God who silently took our sin upon Himself that they forget who He is! He first came in peace to save those whom the Father would give Him. Praise God He came that way first to save us from our sins. Do not forget though that He will return as the Conquering King! He will take out His anger on wicked men. The slaughter will be so great that the blood of men will reach a horse's bridle. Look at the description of Him from John.
As for slavery, aren't we all slaves to someone? If you have a job you are a slave to your company or your boss. If you are the boss you are a slave to investors or at least the government. The Bible gives us clear guidance on how to be a good slave and a good master. Thankfully, old-fashioned slavery is not tolerated anymore except for some Muslim countries. As Christians we are slaves to Christ or slaves to sin. You cannot serve two masters. You will love one and hate the other. That is the crux of what the bible is teaching us about slavery.
So, as for the Word of God there are important life lessons throughout the Scriptures. Fundamentalists believe that all of the Scriptures are profitable for reproof and instruction. The Word of God is a great road map to help us thru the dry times. We all go thru those times where we ask God for guidance and we get nothing; oh how He loves to test us. For such times we can go to His Word for guidance and encouragement.
Now, there is a big difference between a legalist and a fundamentalist. I don't have any problems with modern, Christian music. I love to listen to Manafest and Lacrae just as much as I love listening to Third Day. If I miss Church I don't get bent out of shape about it. I pull up a podcast of the Sermon and catch up. Not because I feel I have to. I love hearing about the Lord. For a true fundamentalist it's not about religion but a living relationship with Jesus Christ.
Sorry for the book here.
The "we are all slaves to somebody" line is characteristics of those seeking to justify themselves with regard to "owning" someone else. It was used by Christians, particularly southern Bible Belt Christians, to justify maintaining slavery those same Christians accused women for being the instrument of bringing sin into the world. Once again it was the literal bible that reached improper conclusions.
I wish the goal of fundamentalists was to treat everyone as if that person was Jesus Himself.
No, they want the Spirit that inspired writers of the Bible to be superior to anything written in the Bible, and they want the description of the results of that Spirit which are listed in the Bible to be the standard for determining whether anything (in the Bible or not) is OF that Spirit.
They want the spirit they claim to be superior. If not they would use ALL of the Bible and gain an accurate understanding as guided by the spirit.
There are two spirits listed as revealing things. God's, which would be in line with his revealed word the Bible and Satan's, which leads to rejection of all or part of the Bible.
Heart_song and myself offer a good contrast of a Fundamentalist and (for lack of a better definition) a Liberal Christian. I consider myself a Fundamentalist and obviously Heart-Song would be the Liberal here. While searching the Internet I found no true antonym for a Fundamentalist so no disrespect intended for the word 'liberal.'
I'll break Heart_Song's points up into categories.
1. Black and white thinking. I wouldn't say that a Fundamentalist is strictly a "black and white" thinker. That is a stereotype and most people probably think of Jerry Falwell when they hear the term Fundamentalist. I read the Word daily and but I also want to know how other people of Faith have dealt with life's difficult issues. I read CS Lewis, Charles Spurgeon, Jonathan Edwards, Matthew Henry, John Bunyan, GK Chesterton, George MacDonald, Jim George (Man after God's own heart), O.S Hawkins (The Jesus Code), Thomas Aquinas (Summa Theologica is a masterpiece!), John Eldredge (Wild at Heart), St Francis De Sales (Best Works), Billy Graham, Randy Alcorn, Kyle Idleman, Moses Maimonides, Gerald Schroeder, etc.
I think most Fundamentalist will confess to having an insatiable desire for knowledge and (more importantly) wisdom. Living a life that is an acceptable sacrifice to Christ is not easy! It is really helpful to gain insights into complex, spiritual issues. For the fundamentalist though, if the answers contradict the intent of the scriptures then we have to side with God's Word.
2. The Holy Spirit is EVERYTHING to a true Fundamentalist. He fills us with the power and love of Jesus Christ. He is the One who helps us to hear God's Voice. He gives us spiritual eyes to see the path of righteousness. Spiritual ears so we can hear God whisper to our minds. He will always bear witness for or against any choice if we will pay attention. He will say "this is the way, walk ye in it." We know when we are in a right relationship with Him because we will have peace and joy in our hearts. Since God is not the only One to whisper to us we must test the spirits. God's Word is the best way for us to do so.
3. Paul and women. As a fundamentalist, here is what I gather from 1 Corinthians 14. Paul gives his guidance. He didn't say the Lord decrees such and such. So, you need to weigh the advantages and disadvantages. I can't speak for the Apostle but my experience with women is that once a woman is put in charge or given a position of authority then the other women almost immediately dislike her. I've had female bosses before and had no problem with working for them. But typically, the women under her are held to a very high standard and I've seen it get ugly time and time again. Drama in the work place is bad enough. The Church should be free of that.
In the household the woman was to be subservient to the man but for that you have to blame Eve. (Genesis 3:16). Eve cursed all women when she was the first to fall prey to deceit. Of course, a man has an even greater responsibility because he is to love the woman as Christ loves His Church. Better or worse, sickness or in health, rich or poor. When that scale is tipped the other way with the woman ruling the man then the marriage often fails. As did mine. Not that it was all the fault of my ex. I made more than my share of mistakes.
4. Abominable deeds. The very fact that the early Church Fathers and prophets did not leave out all the ugliness that took place (murder, rape, incest, slavery, annihilation, etc) confirms the authenticity of the Bible as the Council of Nicea decided what was important. If they were just trying to promote Judea-Christian values (Old and New Testament) wouldn't it make sense to leave that stuff out? God may have seemed mean to you in the Old Testament but that should serve as a warning. He is a Holy, Jealous God who will pour His wrath on those who defy Him. If you're talking about the civilizations that God told Israel to destroy then you should probably read a bit more of the Bible. Those nations in the Promised Land were guilty of some very heinous deeds. They would routinely sacrifice their children to Molech and Baal. (Leviticus 18 - 20, 2 Kings 23:10, and Jeremiah 32:35). You are concerned for those whom the Israelites put to the sword but what about the souls of innocent baby's that cry out to the Lord? Don't they deserve justice from a righteous God?
In Genesis 15:16 God (or rather Jesus in a Theophany) told Abraham that his people would not inherit the land for 4 generations because the sins of the locals had not yet reached their full measure. God is merciful and long suffering. Again in Genesis 18:16-33) God (or rather Jesus) allowed Abraham to plead for the lives of those in Sodom and Gomorrah. He asked if 50 righteous men could be found if God would not punish them. Abraham even pleaded God down to 10 men and God accepted the terms. But we know that did not happen. The people of those cities were destroyed for their wickedness. The outcry of innocents was too much for the Lord to bear anymore.
People get so caught up with the image of the sweet Baby Jesus, of the healer of the sick and crippled, and the Lamb of God who silently took our sin upon Himself that they forget who He is! He first came in peace to save those whom the Father would give Him. Praise God He came that way first to save us from our sins. Do not forget though that He will return as the Conquering King! He will take out His anger on wicked men. The slaughter will be so great that the blood of men will reach a horse's bridle. Look at the description of Him from John.
As for slavery, aren't we all slaves to someone? If you have a job you are a slave to your company or your boss. If you are the boss you are a slave to investors or at least the government. The Bible gives us clear guidance on how to be a good slave and a good master. Thankfully, old-fashioned slavery is not tolerated anymore except for some Muslim countries. As Christians we are slaves to Christ or slaves to sin. You cannot serve two masters. You will love one and hate the other. That is the crux of what the bible is teaching us about slavery.
So, as for the Word of God there are important life lessons throughout the Scriptures. Fundamentalists believe that all of the Scriptures are profitable for reproof and instruction. The Word of God is a great road map to help us thru the dry times. We all go thru those times where we ask God for guidance and we get nothing; oh how He loves to test us. For such times we can go to His Word for guidance and encouragement.
Now, there is a big difference between a legalist and a fundamentalist. I don't have any problems with modern, Christian music. I love to listen to Manafest and Lacrae just as much as I love listening to Third Day. If I miss Church I don't get bent out of shape about it. I pull up a podcast of the Sermon and catch up. Not because I feel I have to. I love hearing about the Lord. For a true fundamentalist it's not about religion but a living relationship with Jesus Christ.
Sorry for the book here.
This post is the answer to the thread title question.
I am especially appalled that someone in this day and age is still claiming that women are subservient to men and using the bible to justify it. The part about how women in charge can't work with other women is simply pathetic.
They want the spirit they claim to be superior. If not they would use ALL of the Bible and gain an accurate understanding as guided by the spirit.
There are two spirits listed as revealing things. God's, which would be in line with his revealed word the Bible and Satan's, which leads to rejection of all or part of the Bible.
The claim to superiority of the Spirit is based on what Jesus taught and promised about the Spirit as well as descriptions of the qualities of that spirit and the results of living in that Spirit. All of which are prominent in the Bible, though often ignored by those with agendas that don't match that of Jesus.
The claim to superiority of the Spirit is based on what Jesus taught and promised about the Spirit as well as descriptions of the qualities of that spirit and the results of living in that Spirit. All of which are prominent in the Bible, though often ignored by those with agendas that don't match that of Jesus.
Of course, the Spirit can mean anything. Both Fundamentalists and Liberal Christians claim to get their guidance from the Spirit. And yet the two camps vehemently disagree with each other. One must conclude that the Spirit is awfully confused, or has trouble getting his (or her) message out.
I would suggest that the Spirit is actually a person's own ego, and revelations from said Spirit are usually just a person's existing thoughts and opinions.
Of course, the Spirit can mean anything. Both Fundamentalists and Liberal Christians claim to get their guidance from the Spirit. And yet the two camps vehemently disagree with each other. One must conclude that the Spirit is awfully confused, or has trouble getting his (or her) message out.
I would suggest that the Spirit is actually a person's own ego, and revelations from said Spirit are usually just a person's existing thoughts and opinions.
Generally, I agree. Although it might be splitting hairs, I'm not sure that ego, and one's small, inner voice are the same. At least, mine seem to be at odds occasionally.
Of course, the Spirit can mean anything. Both Fundamentalists and Liberal Christians claim to get their guidance from the Spirit. And yet the two camps vehemently disagree with each other. One must conclude that the Spirit is awfully confused, or has trouble getting his (or her) message out.
I would suggest that the Spirit is actually a person's own ego, and revelations from said Spirit are usually just a person's existing thoughts and opinions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude
Generally, I agree. Although it might be splitting hairs, I'm not sure that ego, and one's small, inner voice are the same. At least, mine seem to be at odds occasionally.
Obviously, the "spirit" that is being listened to cannot be the same if they disagree. The reality is that people are listening to themselves and the spirit that is guiding them. John instructed his readers to "test the spirits" and to "not believe every spirit". I believe the problem is that most people have not tested the spirit they are listening to and if it agrees with their human desire they go with it. This is also the reason so many refuse to accept any standard by which to determine the truth of the spirit they are choosing to listen to.
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