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It contains all the Scriptures of the Old Testament that were considered inspired by the Israelites and all the Scriptures Paul wrote since he said what He wrote is the word of God. It would include John's Revelation later penned since it too was God breathed.
1. why do only the Israelites count?
2. I don't think even Paul claims that every word he wrote was inspired. And I think it would be pretty odd for him to be referring to his own writing as "scripture"
3. How could he have been referring to Revelations if it wasn't witten yet
If they had Christ in them to listen to, why didn't Christ tell them that? Why did Paul have to write to them and why did they have to read the Scriptures Paul wrote to them to do those things?
Actually he did tell us to correctly cut (rightly divide) the word of truth. And he told Timothy to hand down to faithful men who are competent to teach also all he told Timothy. If they, being so close to the day of Christ, who had the spirit in such a mighty way needed teachers, I think it would be best for you as well and to search the Scriptures to see if these things are so as the noble Bereans did in Acts.
If the early Christians under Paul needed no Scriptures but, as you improperly think, only needed Christ in them to teach them, then why did God set up teachers in the body of Christ to teach the believers?
He did, the sons of God are led by the spirit of God, greater is he that is in you. You have no need that anyone teach you for you have the anointing within you.
If Christ in you is witnessing the truth to you concerning the path of righteousness and you are not hearing it, then you need pastors, prophets, teachers and whoever to show you how to hear and know the the Christ within that witnesses to the truth. Righteousness comes to us by faith and that same righteousness that comes to us by faith is what we live by. This is what the pastors, prophets, teachers and whoever were given for, for the likes of yourself who just do not get it to be educated in this truth, remember the scriptures testify of the one we need to know and follow. God did not send us a bible as if it is some kind of life jacket to save us from going astray, we quit going astray when Christ becomes a reality to us.
It is also very subtle how you and other fundamentalists say to those who see the scripture in a different light to you, that they are saying scripture is not needed, useful or whatever else you try and imply, this is not what we have said, and if someone did say that, quote them. The writers of the New Testament were teaching to trust Christ in us, remember Paul told Timothy that the scriptures are able to make you wise unto salvation, and as you very well know, salvation is not from eternal hell, salvation is salvation from not knowing the Christ of God(whom to know is life eternal), it is not salvation to know the bible or lets get them saved so they can understand me better by the bible.
You need to learn how to read. The poster I replied to offers an "either/or" approach, where choosing one must mean rejecting the other.
No, Finn, saying that you "elevate(s) a book to the status of God and completely ignore(s) the Spirit" is not an either/or approach, it is stating that you place the book above the spirit and don't pay any attention to the Spirit which you should recognize by its fruit. The "either/or" is only stuck in your mind, since that person has agreed that the bible is a great tool for the Spirit.
1. why do only the Israelites count?
2. I don't think even Paul claims that every word he wrote was inspired. And I think it would be pretty odd for him to be referring to his own writing as "scripture"
3. How could he have been referring to Revelations if it wasn't witten yet
1. You asked Mike if it includes "all scripture". All the Scripture Paul used and which were accepted by Israeletes of the Old Testament was inspired.
2. 1Th_2:13 And therefore we also are thanking God unintermittingly that, in accepting the word heard from us, from God you receive, not the word of men, but, according as it truly is, the word of God, which is operating also in you who are believing."
3. He didn't have to refer to Revelations. He was referring to all the Scriptures which are God breathed. Since Revelation is, it is therefore inspired as well. And who says the Gospels were not written when Paul wrote about inspiration?
Originally Posted by Eusebius If they had Christ in them to listen to, why didn't Christ tell them that? Why did Paul have to write to them and why did they have to read the Scriptures Paul wrote to them to do those things?
Actually he did tell us to correctly cut (rightly divide) the word of truth. And he told Timothy to hand down to faithful men who are competent to teach also all he told Timothy. If they, being so close to the day of Christ, who had the spirit in such a mighty way needed teachers, I think it would be best for you as well and to search the Scriptures to see if these things are so as the noble Bereans did in Acts.
If the early Christians under Paul needed no Scriptures but, as you improperly think, only needed Christ in them to teach them, then why did God set up teachers in the body of Christ to teach the believers?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps
He did, the sons of God are led by the spirit of God, greater is he that is in you. You have no need that anyone teach you for you have the anointing within you.
If believers of the nations have no need of teachers, why did God raise up teachers for the believers of the nation?
Ephesians 4:11-14 And the same One gives these, indeed, as apostles, yet these as prophets, yet these as evangelists, yet these as pastors and teachers, (12) toward the adjusting of the saints for the work of dispensing, for the upbuilding of the body of Christ, (13) unto the end that we should all attain to the unity of the faith and of the realization of the son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature of the complement of the Christ, (14) that we may by no means still be minors, surging hither and thither and being carried about by every wind of teaching, by human caprice, by craftiness with a view to the systematizing of the deception."
Due to your ideas, believers are surging hither and thither and being carried about by every wind of teaching, by human caprice, by craftiness with a fiew to the systematizing of the deception.
Quote:
If Christ in you is witnessing the truth to you concerning the path of righteousness and you are not hearing it, then you need pastors, prophets, teachers and whoever to show you how to hear and know the the Christ within that witnesses to the truth. Righteousness comes to us by faith and that same righteousness that comes to us by faith is what we live by. This is what the pastors, prophets, teachers and whoever were given for, for the likes of yourself who need to be educated in this truth, remember the scriptures testify of the one we need to know and follow. God did not send us a bible as if it is some kind of life jacket to save us from going astray, we quit going astray when Christ becomes a reality to us.
No, the entire body of Christ believers needed teachers even in Paul's day.
In fact God did send us a Bible to keep us from going astray.
Quote:
It is also very subtle how you and other fundamentalists say to those who see the scripture in a different light to you, that they are scripture is not needed, useful or whatever else you try and imply, this is not what we have said, and if someone did say that, quote them. The writers of the New Testament were teaching to trust Christ in us, remember Paul told Timothy that the scriptures are able to make you wise unto salvation, and as you very well know, salvation is not from eternal hell, salvation is salvation from not knowing the Christ of God(whom to know is life eternal), it is not salvation to know the bible or lets get them saved so they can understand me better by the bible.
Never once have I ever stated nor even implied that Scripture is not needed or useful.
Even you just said it "Paul told Timothy that the scriptures are able to make you wise unto salvation." Paul didn't tell Timothy, "just forget about the Bible. Just trust Christ in you."
No one can understand God or Christ better apart from the Sacred Scriptures.
If believers of the nations have no need of teachers, why did God raise up teachers for the believers of the nation?
Ephesians 4:11-14 And the same One gives these, indeed, as apostles, yet these as prophets, yet these as evangelists, yet these as pastors and teachers, (12) toward the adjusting of the saints for the work of dispensing, for the upbuilding of the body of Christ, (13) unto the end that we should all attain to the unity of the faith and of the realization of the son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature of the complement of the Christ, (14) that we may by no means still be minors, surging hither and thither and being carried about by every wind of teaching, by human caprice, by craftiness with a view to the systematizing of the deception."
Due to your ideas, believers are surging hither and thither and being carried about by every wind of teaching, by human caprice, by craftiness with a fiew to the systematizing of the deception.
No, the entire body of Christ believers needed teachers even in Paul's day.
In fact God did send us a Bible to keep us from going astray.
Never once have I ever stated nor even implied that Scripture is not needed or useful.
Even you just said it "Paul told Timothy that the scriptures are able to make you wise unto salvation." Paul didn't tell Timothy, "just forget about the Bible. Just trust Christ in you."
No one can understand God or Christ better apart from the Sacred Scriptures.
I think i answered your questions in my last post. I said it is very subtle how you fundamentalists claim that those who do not see the scriptures in the same light as you, believe scripture is not needed or useful or whatever else it is you imply, none of us are saying that, if someone did, quote them.
No, the entire body of Christ believers needed teachers even in Paul's day.
If I am walking with two other men, each of them will serve as my teacher. I will pick out the good points of the one and imitate them, and the bad points of the other and correct them in myself.
The bible is not being attacked or trashed or being said it is of no relevence, so get out of your defensive mode and listen to what is actually being said to you.
Jesus who occasionally quoted scripture, said search the scriptures for in them you think you have eternal life, but they are they which testify of me, the one in whom you need to know to know what Life actually is. The message of Jesus is that we know this Life. The Bereans who were bible believers, searched the scriptures upon hearing Paul, and found for themselves too, that it is Christ who is our life that we need to know and in them believing they found life, then like good christians used the scriptures themselves to all who would hearer that it is Christ not the bible we need to know.
No, Finn, saying that you "elevate(s) a book to the status of God and completely ignore(s) the Spirit" is not an either/or approach, it is stating that you place the book above the spirit and don't pay any attention to the Spirit which you should recognize by its fruit. The "either/or" is only stuck in your mind, since that person has agreed that the bible is a great tool for the Spirit.
It's nice you try to defend someone else's views, but saying you choose a book, and ignore the Spirit means exactly what it says: Either/Or.
The bible is not being attacked or trashed or being said it is of no relevence, so get out of your defensive mode and listen to what is actually being said to you.
Jesus who occasionally quoted scripture, said search the scriptures for in them you think you have eternal life, but they are they which testify of me, the one in whom you need to know to know what Life actually is. The message of Jesus is that we know this Life. The Bereans who were bible believers, searched the scriptures upon hearing Paul, and found for themselves too, that it is Christ who is our life that we need to know and in them believing they found life, then like good christians used the scriptures themselves to all who would hearer that it is Christ not the bible we need to know.
Those Jews Jesus was speaking to did not have their eyes opened to the Scriptures which testify concerning Christ. They read the Scriptures (the Old Testament) as ones being under the law and thought that by continuing to do the law apart from Christ that they could find life.
One cannot know Christ nor God's will apart from Scripture.
Acts 17:2-3 Now, as was Paul's custom, he entered to them, and on three sabbaths he argues with them from the scriptures, (3) opening up and placing before them that the Christ must suffer and rise from among the dead, and that "This One is the Christ - the Jesus Whom I am announcing to you."
Acts 17:11-12 Now these were more noble than those in Thessalonica, who receive the word with all eagerness, examining the scriptures day by day, to see if these have it thus." (12) Many of them, indeed, then, believe, and of the respectable Greek women and men not a few."
They believed that Jesus is the Christ (Anointed/Messiah) Who died and rose from among the dead. That is what the Bereans believed.
Even you say the Christians used the Scriptures. If they didn't, they wouldn't know Jesus is the Christ, the One Who fulfilled Scripture.
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