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To find out what ? That he is the Christ and it is him we now learn of to know God, you believe in God(very nice)believe also in ME. Jesus' words....... Learn of me...... His Father's words........This is my beloved son in who i am well pleased, listen to him. He is saying the same words today to whoever has an ear to hear, you just need to get over that hump of misconceptions about God and know and believe he exists today in spirit as he did in the flesh 2000 years ago. He is not some historic icon or relic of the past that left us a bible to figure things out.
Woohoo!The Spirit is moving in you, pcamps! Bless you brother.
The problem is a lack of belief in the Spirit and the New Covenant, nate. They really do not believe Christ abides with us and that we have His Holy Spirit (Comforter) to guide us to the truth God has "written in our hearts.". They really don't! They do not trust their hearts to know what is and what is not compatible with the Spirit of agape love.
I take it "they" means universalists, since you are talking about a universalist person. I think you are right though, because they seem to believe in political correctness more than anything else. My recommendation to them is to accept and utilize both of the gifts God gave us, the living word, and the written word and use them together.
To find out what ? That he is the Christ and it is him we now learn of to know God, you believe in God(very nice)believe also in ME. Jesus' words....... Learn of me...... His Father's words........This is my beloved son in who i am well pleased, listen to him. He is saying the same words today to whoever has an ear to hear, you just need to get over that hump of misconceptions about God and know and believe he exists today in spirit as he did in the flesh 2000 years ago. He is not some historic icon.
We, 2000 year removed from when Christ was in Israel can only know Christ as Paul presented Him in the Scriptures. If you don't hear Paul, you don't hear Christ for Christ sent Paul to be the apostle of the nations. If the Scriptures Paul wrote concerning Christ are not inerrant concerning Christ, then I would be just like you and not trust those Scriptures. They were written for a reason pcamps. They were written for us to learn all about Christ.
You wouldn't even know about the evangel concerning what Christ did for mankind if no one ever brought that evangel to you. How did they learn of that evangel? They read about it in the Scriptures.
Originally Posted by MysticPhD The problem is a lack of belief in the Spirit and the New Covenant, nate. They really do not believe Christ abides with us and that we have His Holy Spirit (Comforter) to guide us to the truth God has "written in our hearts.". They really don't! They do not trust their hearts to know what is and what is not compatible with the Spirit of agape love.
They, the apostles that was spoken to by Christ, were to be lead into the truth by the holy spirit as it pertained to THEM and ISRAEL. They were not given the secrets Christ gave to Paul. Paul said no man taught him those secrets. None of the apostles taught him those secrets. They were not led into ALL THE TRUTH that was given to Paul. Even Peter, in his epistle said the words of Paul are hard to understand. Christ gave them to him to give to the nations. Paul said he completed the word of God so no further revelation concerning what is ours is needed. The truths Christ gave to Paul are inerrant.
The problem is a lack of belief in the Spirit and the New Covenant, nate. They really do not believe Christ abides with us and that we have His Holy Spirit (Comforter) to guide us to the truth God has "written in our hearts.". They really don't! They do not trust their hearts to know what is and what is not compatible with the Spirit of agape love.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
I take it "they" means universalists, since you are talking about a universalist person. I think you are right though, because they seem to believe in political correctness more than anything else. My recommendation to them is to accept and utilize both of the gifts God gave us, the living word, and the written word and use them together.
No, you take it wrong Finn. "They" means you and those like you who believe the words "written in ink" always trump the Spirit and what God has "written in our hearts." Eusebius is also an inerrant Bible literalist Creationist who just happens to recognize the TRUTH of Universal Reconciliation . . . but believes he needs to accept the Bible accounts as literal. He also does not understand evolution and thinks it is somehow anti-God.
No, you take it wrong Finn. "They" means you and those like you who believe the words "written in ink" always trump the Spirit and what God has "written in our hearts." Eusebius is also an inerrant Bible literalist Creationist who just happens to recognize the TRUTH of Universal Reconciliation . . . but believes he needs to accept the Bible accounts as literal. He also does not understand evolution and thinks it is somehow anti-God.
Well, I have told you seven times what I believe, so why are you still claiming I believe something else?
No one keeps misrepresenting your views, so what makes you do it? Are you passing your "agape love test" dy doing it? If you are, then you are listening to the wrong Spirit.
We, 2000 year removed from when Christ was in Israel can only know Christ as Paul presented Him in the Scriptures. If you don't hear Paul, you don't hear Christ for Christ sent Paul to be the apostle of the nations. If the Scriptures Paul wrote concerning Christ are not inerrant concerning Christ, then I would be just like you and not trust those Scriptures. They were written for a reason pcamps. They were written for us to learn all about Christ.
You wouldn't even know about the evangel concerning what Christ did for mankind if no one ever brought that evangel to you. How did they learn of that evangel? They read about it in the Scriptures.
Paul said Christ was in you, which bible did he get that from?, and why you are thinking of an answer also let me know which bible he got the idea that greater is he that is in you then he that is in the world.
I take it "they" means universalists, since you are talking about a universalist person. I think you are right though, because they seem to believe in political correctness more than anything else. My recommendation to them is to accept and utilize both of the gifts God gave us, the living word, and the written word and use them together.
I would just love it if you could quote the scripture where not only is the bible called a gift but God gave it to us as a gift.
Let me guess, you already have shown me seven times.
But Jesus told those Pharisees to search the Scriptures because they testify concerning Him (John 5:39).
If the Scriptures Jesus told them to read were not inspired, if they were not inerrant concerning Christ, why would Christ waste His time telling them to read those Scriptures? Why didn't Jesus just say: You don't need the Scriptures?
How well is the play book going for inerrantists. You are driving young people from your ranks (defined fundamentalist style as "falling away in the end times;" you make yourselves look foolish to nonchristians as Augustine warned would happen (defined fundamentalist style as "God has hardened their hearts;" and you NEVER talk about the power of Christ, it's always the power of the Word (defined fundamentalist style as "Jesus and the written word," a compilation of conflicting stories by three score authors and the editing of thousands of copyists and scribes---"are one and the same."
You have literally made a Quadentity of Father, Son, Spirit, and physical Bible. None of the first three are other than spirit, but somehow you are able to transpose the physicality of the Bible into the Spirituality of the other three. None of this COMES from scripture. It is instead some sort of self made spiritual deduction as in, "if God says this over there and Paul says such over here, and John says his dream said another thing, then even though Scripture NEVER claims to be inerrant we are smart enough to deduce from all these different writings that it really MEANS the Bible is inerrant.
You don't use scholarship to deduce that. You keep distant from biblical discrepancies by claiming its only the "originals" that are perfect (an argument not raised by fundamentalists until the marginally smarter fundamentalists realized defending the copies is an impossible task), and that the copies with all the errors are faithful to those unlikely to be found originals. The inherent fallacy is that without an original we can't know whether or not there is a mistake in one of those, let alone the copies. And admit it, you really think people should just accept it on the fundamentalist say so.
And that might work except the history of fundamentalism for the past two hundred years has always been about getting it wrong---with slavery, with the rights of women, and I don't even include the ongoing battle of women in church leadership, I mean with their even getting a right to vote---opposed by fundamentalists for decades.
The combination of historical social fails and your incredulous optimism that copies should be accepted as originals and that you have all the answers to all interpretive aspects of those not perfect but perfect enough to be considered perfect copies in your hands does not leave the rest of us laughing. It leaves us in pity for you and in fear of what you are trying, and, thank God, failing to do, is turn our youth into unthinking automatons programmed by the book, guided by the book, whose action are judged only by the book, and without any freedom of thought nor wonderment about God Almighty.
When you put the book before Jesus Christ, that is idolatry.
When you put the book before your neighbor, that is idolatry.
When you put the book before your enemies, that is idolatry.
When you allow the book to overrule your common sense, that is stupidity.
I'm not concerned about genius textual critics being able to destroy faith in God. Genius has its limits. Stupidity on the other hand-----
How well is the play book going for inerrantists. You are driving young people from your ranks (defined fundamentalist style as "falling away in the end times;" you make yourselves look foolish to nonchristians as Augustine warned would happen (defined fundamentalist style as "God has hardened their hearts;" and you NEVER talk about the power of Christ, it's always the power of the Word (defined fundamentalist style as "Jesus and the written word," a compilation of conflicting stories by three score authors and the editing of thousands of copyists and scribes---"are one and the same."
You have literally made a Quadentity of Father, Son, Spirit, and physical Bible. None of the first three are other than spirit, but somehow you are able to transpose the physicality of the Bible into the Spirituality of the other three. None of this COMES from scripture. It is instead some sort of self made spiritual deduction as in, "if God says this over there and Paul says such over here, and John says his dream said another thing, then even though Scripture NEVER claims to be inerrant we are smart enough to deduce from all these different writings that it really MEANS the Bible is inerrant.
You don't use scholarship to deduce that. You keep distant from biblical discrepancies by claiming its only the "originals" that are perfect (an argument not raised by fundamentalists until the marginally smarter fundamentalists realized defending the copies is an impossible task), and that the copies with all the errors are faithful to those unlikely to be found originals. The inherent fallacy is that without an original we can't know whether or not there is a mistake in one of those, let alone the copies. And admit it, you really think people should just accept it on the fundamentalist say so.
And that might work except the history of fundamentalism for the past two hundred years has always been about getting it wrong---with slavery, with the rights of women, and I don't even include the ongoing battle of women in church leadership, I mean with their even getting a right to vote---opposed by fundamentalists for decades.
The combination of historical social fails and your incredulous optimism that copies should be accepted as originals and that you have all the answers to all interpretive aspects of those not perfect but perfect enough to be considered perfect copies in your hands does not leave the rest of us laughing. It leaves us in pity for you and in fear of what you are trying, and, thank God, failing to do, is turn our youth into unthinking automatons programmed by the book, guided by the book, whose action are judged only by the book, and without any freedom of thought nor wonderment about God Almighty.
When you put the book before Jesus Christ, that is idolatry.
When you put the book before your neighbor, that is idolatry.
When you put the book before your enemies, that is idolatry.
When you allow the book to overrule your common sense, that is stupidity.
I'm not concerned about genius textual critics being able to destroy faith in God. Genius has its limits. Stupidity on the other hand-----
Oh, okay, if you say so.
This thread is about the Scriptures being inerrant.
Do you believe the Scriptures concerning Christ are inerrant?
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