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DRob posited several reasons that should allow for some significant discussion about the actual reason Christ came to earth.My responses are in blue. I hope this sparks a serious and thoughtful discussion about the ACTUAL purpose of Christ's sacrifice.
Jesus came to earth to do the will of the Father. That's what He taught.This is obvious. The real issue is what His Will actually was.
The Father's will was that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life. That's what He taught.Do you really think that this "beholding and believing IN" itself is the key . . . or is it what the "beholding and believing" will help us to understand about the TRUE NATURE of God and what He wants from us? We are told that eternal life is to KNOW God and His Son. We are also told that everyone who loves KNOWS God and is "born of God." Love seems to be central to this process.
Jesus told the disciples that He will be mocked and mistreated and spit upon, and after they have scourged Him, they will kill Him; and the third day He will rise again. That's what He taught.True. It was inevitable given the savagery and ignorance of our barbaric ancestors. Their leaders could not respond in any other way to His Gospel of love in that barbaric era.
Before Jesus died, He gave instructions to the disciples to wait for the Helper that would be sent to them to teach them all things, and bring to their remembrance all that He said to them. That's what He taught.True. He instituted the New Covenant under which God provides the Comforter (in Christ's name) to guide us to the truth God has "written in our hearts." Christ's human consciousness was reborn as Spirit (Holy Spirit/Comforter) and is available within ALL human consciousness. That is how Christ abides with us. I encountered this beautiful consciousness in deep meditation and it eliminated my atheism instantly. This is how I know He is available to us all.
The Helper taught that Jesus was delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God to godless men and who put Him to death. But God raised Him up again, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power.The Helper taught no such thing. Men interpreted what happened to Christ as the demand of God for a blood sacrifice to appease Him for the disobedience of our forebears. This belief was in accordance with our ignorant primitive ancestors' savage and barbaric beliefs about appeasing God for sins. But it was NOT true. The real sacrifice of Jesus was KNOWING what our barbaric ancestors would do to Him and allowing it in perfect agape love for us all . . . including His torturers and murderers! "No greater love . . ."
The helper taught that through Jesus' name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins and will have eternal life.The Helper taught no such thing. Men interpreted this as some magical property of Christ's name and the literal interpretation of the "beholding and believing IN" noted earlier. It is NOT true. There is no magic. But "believing ON" Christ involves an inner commitment to follow the guidance of Christ's Holy Spirit (Comforter) in our consciousness through love of God and each other every day and repenting when we don't . . . as Jesus instructed His disciples to do many, many times.
That's what was taught. I understand He also taught to love your neighbor - but He taught FIRST to love the Lord with all your heart, soul, and mind. That includes understanding of ALL that He taught and did on our behalf.Agape love of God and each other was NOT an ALSO taught . . . It was the CENTRAL message of the Gospel that encompasses the Spirit of everything that preceded it. We are not to learn a specific narrative . . . we are to learn to LOVE.
Regarding your note in bullet #2 - Beholding and believing is the key just as it is stated. Do you believe Him, or not? That's what He said. John 6:29 - God's work is about getting people to believe in Jesus whom He sent. 1 John 5:1 - Whoever believes is born of God. Love is not the central process. It is God's work in making people believe.
Regarding bullet #4 - I put in red some text. Christ is not the Holy Spirit. He was physically resurrected as He said, and ascended to the Father. He is available to everyone who is born of God through belief in Him. It is about His way as He said - hot your way or my way.
Regarding bullet #5 and #6 - The Helper taught precisely those points.
Regarding bullet #6 - You are missing who God is - beyond love.
Love is not the overarching principle to except. Our relationship with God through Jesus Christ is prioritized above all other relationships.
I have never asked you to describe your relationship with God, nor denigrated it. I would not do that.
I have always only spoken against the beliefs about God (and the bible) that I have experienced to be untrue and harmful.
Our relationship with God grows out of the knowledge of our relationship to God, and the recognition of that same relationship to God in all. You are always with me and all that i have is yours.
Jesus said He was sent to do the will of God, to proclaim the good news of the kingdom of God and testify the truth which is the word of God.
He said to remain in His word and follow Him by continuing in His word and keeping His commandments as He kept the Father's commandments. He said to teach others to carry out everything He commanded.
Jesus said;" I must proclaim the good news of the kingdom of God to the surrounding cities for this is why I was sent."
"The reason I was born and came into the world is to testify the truth."
"I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me."
And I guess if the relationship is all in the head, that IS denigrating the relationship. It is ALL about what one believes about God.
That is a valid point, Nate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps
Our relationship with God grows out of the knowledge of our relationship to God, and the recognition of that same relationship to God in all. You are always with me and all that i have is yours.
I agree. And just because people do not understand God in terms of the literal stories of Jesus, does not mean they do not have knowledge of their relationship to the God who is love.
And I guess if the relationship is all in the head, that IS denigrating the relationship. It is ALL about what one believes about God.
I don't think it all comes down to. Not for most. I think most people understand, even when not trained, that everything is connected. i gree, in the head is a problem. Many just can't see outside of themselves.
It comes to individual facts to me, as best we can. Love compassion, and understanding, Those aint bad and I cannot stand up and fight against them. They are too strong. Most people teach to these ideas and I can't belittle them. The religion is not the primary focus for many.
my counter parts fight "religion" and thus good people that stand for love compassion and understanding. A fight not based on facts but a fight based on a feeling. I guess I just aint that emotional. I am not sure if it's a good thing or a bad thing. I can't fight a belief but I can fight oppression, ignorance, and indifference. Religions got nothing to do with it.
any line logic that starts with an Omni-thing I stop the discussion and get back to the Omni thing as not real. When a line of logic starts with love, compassion, and understanding for all people, I sit down and shut my big fat mouth. That is not my area. We want to talk about physical possibilities with what we do and don't know? that's my area, not love and compassion. There is no omni thing.
warriors, soldiers, and leaders. Precious few warriors around.
I agree. And just because people do not understand God in terms of the literal stories of Jesus, does not mean they do not have knowledge of their relationship to the God who is love.
what do you think about the possibility that a human brain can distort its own views so that it thinks itself truthful? I call them "strings", those little pieces of info that the brain inserts to help itself fuction? and how can we get a brain to "see the string"?
My relationship with God is precious and of utmost importance to me. I do not necessarily find the idea appealing of sharing the details of it with someone who, as far as I know, wants to dissect it and try to find a way to denigrate it.
Some things are best held close to the heart. Or shared only with those who will appreciate it.
Going back to the OP... How a person sees Jesus Christ will reflect how a person sees God.
Jesus said that He is the way to the Father. The only way to God is through Him... and you believe God, you will also believe in Him who God sent.
If you have a relationship with Jesus Christ and you fully believed what He claimed, then your relationship with God will be based on the claims of Jesus.
If you do not have a relationship with Jesus Christ, and try to relate to God outside of Him, you will get a very different viewpoint of God.
On the one hand - we have a view of God offered by one claiming to have been in His presence, who rose from the dead and returned to God's presence.
On the other hand - we have a view of God that originates from people who have never seen God, and are in fact separated from Him.
The former would seem to be much more accurate than the latter.
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There is no omni thing. 
