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Fox News just picked it up. This might end up blowing up in Stewart's face given the how Hollywood and the media rips anyone apart who dares says something critical of homosexuality.
That may be the most inane comment you have made; Stewart has not said anything critical of homosexuality.
Precisely. The gay aspect to this is just letting the camel's nose into the tent. Next up, they won't serve: blacks, inter-racial couples, people of other religions, etc.
It's nothing but bigots looking for an excuse to hate - "we don't surv yur kind around here."
Oh, but their "religion" supposed allows this - well, aside from that Jesus guy telling us to love each other and don't be an arrogant, judgmental hypocrite.
This comment simply shows a lack of understanding of the reasoning behind refusing to bake a cake for a same-sex wedding. Why? Because the reasoning does not apply to a mixed-race or alternate religion wedding cake.
I would posit that a cake, by its very nature, is a message, words or not. A cake is normally used in celebratory events and the cake, depending on its quality, either emphasizes or detracts from the celebration. A professional, artistically superior cake can increase the positive nature of a celebration, conversely a poorly made cake can have a negative impact on the nature of the celebration.
The issue that is being raised is that Christians believe that same-sex marriages are immoral, similar to a divorce, or a one-night stand. They are perfectly happy keeping these beliefs confined in their own lives, but if they happen to work in a service industry they are now faced with two unfortunate choices; Either they use their skills and talents to promote and enhance a celebration of an event that runs contrary to their conscience, or they refuse and are driven out of town by the liberals with pitchforks and torches.
As Americans, we deal with this sort of dichotomy on a daily basis. As a diverse people, we understand that others may not share the same moral values we do and we are taught to respect that. Whether it is a Jewish friend that doesn't eat pork, or a Muslim friend that won't see an 'R' rated movie, we accept these differences and we strive to live within them, not force others to capitulate to our moral ethics by force or government fiat.
This is no different than a t-shirt maker refusing to make an custom shirt with obscenities, or a photographer politely declining to do a nude portrait, or a vegan restaurant declining to cater a barbeque.
This is not about homosexuality, not about discrimination, not about race, it is about being a decent person and understanding and respecting when it comes to a society that has a whole spectrum of beliefs and morals that may differ from your own.
I would posit that a cake, by its very nature, is a message, words or not. A cake is normally used in celebratory events and the cake, depending on its quality, either emphasizes or detracts from the celebration. A professional, artistically superior cake can increase the positive nature of a celebration, conversely a poorly made cake can have a negative impact on the nature of the celebration.
Really? Are you sure? Because I made a birthday cake this afternoon and I had all kinds of problems getting the cakes out of the pans and, whoopsie! It broke into pieces. So I used the icing, which came out of a can, to sort of glue it together. It's pretty lop-sided. No that's a lie. It's very lopsided. And, full confession since you're obviously the judge of this stuff, the sprinkles on top didn't stick. Do I need to tell the Birthday Boy that his cake has less meaning because it's home made and decidedly amateurish? Or will the effects of the beer make the guests overlook the fact that it's obviously not up to your standards?
Last question: Do you have any idea how pompous your idea sounds?
Last edited by DewDropInn; 06-05-2015 at 06:39 PM..
Really? Are you sure? Because I made a birthday cake this afternoon and I had all kinds of problems getting the cakes out of the pans and, whoopsie! It broke into pieces. So I used the icing, which came out of a can, to sort of glue it together. It's pretty lop-sided. No that's a lie. It's very lopsided. And, full confession since you're obviously the judge of this stuff, the sprinkles on top didn't stick. Do I need to tell the Birthday Boy that his cake has less meaning because it's home made and decidedly amateurish? Or will the effects of the beer make the guests overlook the fact that it's obviously not up to your standards?
So your argument is that the quality of the components of a celebration do not enhance or detract from the overall success or failure of said celebration? I would like to hear your argument for such an assertion. It is simply common sense that if the florist brings wilted flowers, the balloons are not inflated properly, the photographer takes blurry photos and the cake is poorly made and tastes awful, that these shortcomings would detract from the event being celebrated.
Of course this is not limited to bakers. As another example, what if you were a Christian artist, and you were asked to create posters for Planned Parenthood that would emotionally sway people to consider abortion? Would the quality of the artwork enhance or detract from the impact of the message? Of course. This artist would naturally decline the work, respectfully.
The bottom line is that if you run a business that provides general services to the general public you are allowed to discriminate based on the following criteria.
- The standards must be equally applied to all customers, regardless of race, color, religion, national origin, ancestry, sex, age (18 and over), disability and sexual orientation.
As an example, it is legal to discriminate against people who are not wearing shirts or shoes, because it can be applied to all customer equally, regardless of the afore mentioned traits. Also, it doesn't matter if a majority of those without shirts are Latino, as long as the standards are applied equally to all customers.
Similarly, some high-end restaurants require a jacket or they will refuse service, or some bars will offer discounted prices to those wearing Yankees shirts.
So it is completely acceptable and legal for a business to refuse to cater or provide services for same-sex weddings. However, this is important: It is not legal to refuse to cater or provide services to gay weddings. This is discrimination based on sexual orientation. The tenets of Christianity make no disctinction based on sexual orientation or gender identity, but that marriage between two men or two woman, regardless of their sexual orientation is believed to be immoral. This is a vital difference.
I believe I have been very articulate and respectful and if others wish to engage in this discussion, I would hope they would take the same respect and consideration in their replies. There is absolutely no need for personal attacks or insults and will simply be ignored.
I believe I have been very articulate and respectful and if others wish to engage in this discussion, I would hope they would take the same respect and consideration in their replies. There is absolutely no need for personal attacks or insults and will simply be ignored.
Before you put me on ignore...... you will be happy to hear that I looked in the back of the pantry and found some sprinkles that stuck to the icing.
So your argument is that the quality of the components of a celebration do not enhance or detract from the overall success or failure of said celebration? I would like to hear your argument for such an assertion. It is simply common sense that if the florist brings wilted flowers, the balloons are not inflated properly, the photographer takes blurry photos and the cake is poorly made and tastes awful, that these shortcomings would detract from the event being celebrated.
Of course this is not limited to bakers. As another example, what if you were a Christian artist, and you were asked to create posters for Planned Parenthood that would emotionally sway people to consider abortion? Would the quality of the artwork enhance or detract from the impact of the message? Of course. This artist would naturally decline the work, respectfully.
The bottom line is that if you run a business that provides general services to the general public you are allowed to discriminate based on the following criteria.
- The standards must be equally applied to all customers, regardless of race, color, religion, national origin, ancestry, sex, age (18 and over), disability and sexual orientation.
As an example, it is legal to discriminate against people who are not wearing shirts or shoes, because it can be applied to all customer equally, regardless of the afore mentioned traits. Also, it doesn't matter if a majority of those without shirts are Latino, as long as the standards are applied equally to all customers.
Similarly, some high-end restaurants require a jacket or they will refuse service, or some bars will offer discounted prices to those wearing Yankees shirts.
So it is completely acceptable and legal for a business to refuse to cater or provide services for same-sex weddings. However, this is important: It is not legal to refuse to cater or provide services to gay weddings. This is discrimination based on sexual orientation. The tenets of Christianity make no disctinction based on sexual orientation or gender identity, but that marriage between two men or two woman, regardless of their sexual orientation is believed to be immoral. This is a vital difference.
I believe I have been very articulate and respectful and if others wish to engage in this discussion, I would hope they would take the same respect and consideration in their replies. There is absolutely no need for personal attacks or insults and will simply be ignored.
Refusing service to two men or two women would be discrimination based on sex, since you claim that it isn't based on sexual orientation. The baker would sell a 3 tier white cake with sugar flowers to a man woman couple but not a man man couple discrimination based on the sex of the people buying.
Either way you want to play it, it's still discrimination.
This comment simply shows a lack of understanding of the reasoning behind refusing to bake a cake for a same-sex wedding. Why? Because the reasoning does not apply to a mixed-race or alternate religion wedding cake.
I would posit that a cake, by its very nature, is a message, words or not. A cake is normally used in celebratory events and the cake, depending on its quality, either emphasizes or detracts from the celebration. A professional, artistically superior cake can increase the positive nature of a celebration, conversely a poorly made cake can have a negative impact on the nature of the celebration.
The issue that is being raised is that Christians believe that same-sex marriages are immoral, similar to a divorce, or a one-night stand. They are perfectly happy keeping these beliefs confined in their own lives, but if they happen to work in a service industry they are now faced with two unfortunate choices; Either they use their skills and talents to promote and enhance a celebration of an event that runs contrary to their conscience, or they refuse and are driven out of town by the liberals with pitchforks and torches.
As Americans, we deal with this sort of dichotomy on a daily basis. As a diverse people, we understand that others may not share the same moral values we do and we are taught to respect that. Whether it is a Jewish friend that doesn't eat pork, or a Muslim friend that won't see an 'R' rated movie, we accept these differences and we strive to live within them, not force others to capitulate to our moral ethics by force or government fiat.
This is no different than a t-shirt maker refusing to make an custom shirt with obscenities, or a photographer politely declining to do a nude portrait, or a vegan restaurant declining to cater a barbeque.
This is not about homosexuality, not about discrimination, not about race, it is about being a decent person and understanding and respecting when it comes to a society that has a whole spectrum of beliefs and morals that may differ from your own.
Refusing service to two men or two women would be discrimination based on sex, since you claim that it isn't based on sexual orientation. The baker would sell a 3 tier white cake with sugar flowers to a man woman couple but not a man man couple discrimination based on the sex of the people buying.
Either way you want to play it, it's still discrimination.
Mainly, though, it is a contradiction in terms. As I said, drivel. A clear attempt to use lawyers' tricks to justofy hateful behavior.
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