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Being cast into Gehenna, I believe referred to a physical situation applicable to the Jewish audience that Jesus was speaking to. I believe that there was a way out for them as far as being cast into Gehenna. I do know that some believe this to be used in the figurative sense also as far as experiencing the judgments/ corrections of God.
So you would have interpreted the verse to mean that the people in the audience Jesus was speaking to should be afraid of God destroying their soul and body in the literal trash pit outside the city.
Jesus was speaking to them then, but many believe that this will also be in operation during the Millenial (sp?) reign of Christ. I know that many do not believe will happen either. I don't mean to confuse anyone Cg81. There are many different beliefs on what Gehenna was and/or will be and I am still in the process of studying this. But one thing for sure, I do not believe that is refers to an eternal hell. God bless.
So you would have interpreted the verse to mean that the people in the audience Jesus was speaking to should be afraid of God destroying their soul and body in the literal trash pit outside the city.
For what purpose was this?
Many preterist types point out the conquering of Jerusalem in 70 ad and how the bodies were too numberous to bury and were burned in the Valley of hinnom and how the Christians escaped that judgment (of Jerusalem). So Jesus told the pharisees who were so hard hearted "How will you escape the judgment of Geheena?"
One thing that I always point out is that Geheena was never mentioned to non Jews or by any apostle except James, and it's obvious (to me) that James was not referring to the tongue being set on fire by the fires of after life judgment, but that the tongue could spew out putrid garbage. I know this does not address your question of the 'soul' destroyed in Geheena , but you must admit it is curious that no evangelist or apostle ever mentions it, when seemingly it should have been their main theme, no?
This also doesn't answer your questions about predestination, and I admit that (coupled w/eternal torment doctrine) predestination makes no sense at all and turns God into a monster. But, predestination is taught from cover to cover so that's why Calvinism is still alive and well. Even in the Revelation - it's those names written in the lambs book of life "from the foundation of the world" so yes, it's quite the dilemma for non-Calvinists.
I like to point out the conflict between Calvinism and UR, and how the truth that Calvin had about predestination actually leads some into UR because they know God is not the horrendous monster that Calvinism makes Him to be - predestining people to un-ending misery. Now that is just NUTS!
Of course, God setting the stage for that to happen to anyone is nuts, but Calvinism is the insanity of insanities.
blessings,
- Byron
I like to point out the conflict between Calvinism and UR, and how the truth that Calvin had about predestination actually leads some into UR because they know God is not the horrendous monster that Calvinism makes Him to be - predestining people to un-ending misery. Now that is just NUTS!
Great post Byron. I would just like to clarify some things as an Agustinian "Calvinist" myself. (Calvin was a student of Agustine after all!. )
The scripture is pretty clear that we are predestined according to the FOREKNOWLEDGE of God and not by his "whim".
1Pe 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,
To God's elect, strangers in the world, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia,
1Pe 1:2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood:
What I have come to see and realize over the years is that our sense of "time" is so relative and to God there is no time.
I like to envision the entire "event" of "mankind" laid out on a sheet of paper say 1 foot wide by 4 feet long. Beginning to end. That is how I think it looks to someone who is eternal and not subject to time and place.
This plan has already been worked out and we are chosen according to God's foreknowledge of what is already on that "sheet of paper".
Does that make some sense or has it just been too long of a day?
Last edited by JViello; 02-19-2008 at 05:28 PM..
Reason: grammer
I have experienced a few life threatening surgeries in a 12 year span and I can honestly say you won't know JESUS unless you realize what hell is. I think it can be put the other way around as well - you won't know what hell is until you know JESUS.
The two are intertwined - "No one gets to the Father except through ME". What does that tell you? JESUS is trying to steer you out of hell. It's an individual choice. JESUS said the famous line "Get thee behind me, Satan" when rebuking Peter. Read the bible and see how many times he confronts Satan, speaks of him or mentions hell in some form.
How many might think "that's too religious" or have friends that might feel so?
Most people you know believe in hell - they might use the word several times a day. Atheists get wound up about it and a lot of them know the bible better than Christians. That says a lot to me and I wonder where their hearts truly are.
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