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Ok, but the scriptures (at least those which we all agree upon) do not define God as a distinctly physical being. I, through my own reading and study, am very much inclined to believe that while God *can* reveal Himself to us as a physical being, either in Paradise or on Earth (as it was with Christ) I don't believe that, He is a physical being at His essence. Rather, as an all powerful being, He can take whatever physical or spirit form He chooses in any particular instance. After all, one thing that is made quite clear in the Bible is that God is not bound by the limits of space and time as we mortals experience them, and if He *had* to have a physical body 100% of the time then logically He would be bound by those things. And yes, that essence *is* the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. It is the totality of God, not merely the Father, or the Son, or the Spirit individually. This is why we Orthodox Christians are usually quite careful to end each prayer by acknowledging all three persons of the trinity, because we worship and glorify God, not this piece or that piece of God, but all of God.
Also, the creed may have been adopted by the early church in the 4th century, but it had been in the works at least 90 years prior and all it is, is a statement of the basic and fundamental doctrines of the Church, so that, one could tell a true Christian in that time and place, from one of the many heretical groups which existed at the time propagating all manner of nonsense, none of it with biblical support, most of it contrary to the 4 gospels. The reason it was written, is that it gave us the same thing that the LDS church gained when it officially dropped plural marriage, acceptability in the eyes of the secular authorities, in our case the Roman Empire. However, no doctrine was altered, all the creed does is lay the bare bones of it out in front of you, kind of like a class syllabus that has all the topics one can expect to be covered over the term.
I think this covers a lot I'd just add the first written use was 170 AD Theophilus of Antioch.
I know the Mormons have the theory of the great apostasy which would contracict the line about gates of hell shall not stand against the church.
Last edited by spmaiorca; 06-17-2015 at 01:32 AM..
Actually Jesus warns people by the Revelation on the mark of the beast , were the numbers 666 is rejected in Heaven , as 6 is mans number for God , where 6 man number for son Jesus , and , where 6 man number for Holy Spirit , so If people reject any one of these then 6 mans number goes by default , See were Gods Number is 3 in the trinity or 333, so Jesus will be our Judge if we are Christians or not
The trinity is a human attempt to explain a mystery of God that cannot be explained by the limitations of human intelligence. Even those of us who attend liturgical churches spend Trinity Sunday's service musing over the concept. As my priest says every year, "if you think you understand the Trinity after my sermon, then I've done a poor job."
"Trinity" is a coined word. The nearest equivalent 1st century word used is "Deity" (Colossians 2:9)
Just because something is beyond human comprehension does not then negate the truth of such existing as revealed by God.
In short, a non-trinitarian is not Christian for such a person rejects the true God.
Actually Jesus warns people by the Revelation on the mark of the beast , were the numbers 666 is rejected in Heaven , as 6 is mans number for God , where 6 man number for son Jesus , and , where 6 man number for Holy Spirit , so If people reject any one of these then 6 mans number goes by default , See were Gods Number is 3 in the trinity or 333, so Jesus will be our Judge if we are Christians or not
Where are you getting this information - Revelation 13:18 where the number of the beast is mention states
"Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six."
If someone tells me they are Christian, I do not quiz them on it. I take them at their word.
I choose to challenge their actions concerning others. Their treatment of women, children and LGBTQAI are always on my radar. My faith does not allow my silence on these matters.
Ok, but the scriptures (at least those which we all agree upon) do not define God as a distinctly physical being.
The scriptures don't actually "define" God at all. What they do is tell us about His many qualities and attributes.
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I, through my own reading and study, am very much inclined to believe that while God *can* reveal Himself to us as a physical being, either in Paradise or on Earth (as it was with Christ) I don't believe that, He is a physical being at His essence.
I understand that. What I don't understand is why you think that my seeing Him as a physical being means that I'm not every bit as Christian as you are.
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Rather, as an all powerful being, He can take whatever physical or spirit form He chooses in any particular instance. After all, one thing that is made quite clear in the Bible is that God is not bound by the limits of space and time as we mortals experience them, and if He *had* to have a physical body 100% of the time then logically He would be bound by those things.
When Jesus Christ brought a storm on the waters of the Sea of Galilee to an immediate halt simply by saying, "Be still," did having a physical body in any way impede Him? He could have commanded the waters of the Dead Sea to become fresh instead of salty without even being near them. God's power and influence has nothing whatsoever to do with whether He has a physical form or not, and Jesus Christ's mortality is absolute proof of this.
Also, when Jesus was baptized, His Father's voice was heard from Heaven and the Holy Ghost was seen in the form of a dove. Clearly, the Father was in Heaven, the Son was in the water being baptized, and the Spirit had temporarily taken on the form of a dove and was witnessed on earth. It wasn't the Father who appeared as a dove, was it? Why do you think this was the case?
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And yes, that essence *is* the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. It is the totality of God, not merely the Father, or the Son, or the Spirit individually. This is why we Orthodox Christians are usually quite careful to end each prayer by acknowledging all three persons of the trinity, because we worship and glorify God, not this piece or that piece of God, but all of God.
Mormons worship and glorify God, too -- every bit as much as you do. Jesus Christ told us to address our prayers to "our Father which art in Heaven" and He told us to pray in His name. We follow His instructions exactly. You may consider the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost to each be a "piece of God." We believe that each of them has the same divine attributes and is to be considered "God" when spoken of individually or when spoken of collectively.
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Also, the creed may have been adopted by the early church in the 4th century, but it had been in the works at least 90 years prior and all it is, is a statement of the basic and fundamental doctrines of the Church, so that, one could tell a true Christian in that time and place, from one of the many heretical groups which existed at the time propagating all manner of nonsense, none of it with biblical support, most of it contrary to the 4 gospels.
So it had been in the works for "at least 90 years prior"? And why do you think it had not been "in the works for 325 years prior"? Why is there not even a single account from Christ's contemporaries speaking of a three-in-one essence?
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The reason it was written, is that it gave us the same thing that the LDS church gained when it officially dropped plural marriage, acceptability in the eyes of the secular authorities, in our case the Roman Empire.
Oh come on now. That's the most far-fetched statement I've seen in a long time. The reason it was written was that a pagan emperor wanted to eliminate the divisiveness in his empire over a religious matter. He didn't give a damn about which way the vote ultimately ended up going. He just wanted unity. The council was called by a secular authority, not by the pope, who apparently wasn't concerned enough about the situation to call a council about it himself and who didn't even attend. Can you even imagine something like that happening today? Some world leader calls a council of Catholics to decide upon a major Christian doctrine; Pope Francis is absent from the proceedings, which define Christian doctrine for the next 1700+ years.
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However, no doctrine was altered, all the creed does is lay the bare bones of it out in front of you, kind of like a class syllabus that has all the topics one can expect to be covered over the term.
A class syllabus generally simplified things. It doesn't make them more complicated. If no doctrine was altered, the creeds were unnecessary. The Bible lays out the nature of God and the relationship between the Father and the Son quite adequately on its own. I accept the Bible as God's word. I do not accept the Creeds as God's word. I am a Christian.
"Trinity" is a coined word. The nearest equivalent 1st century word used is "Deity" (Colossians 2:9)
Just because something is beyond human comprehension does not then negate the truth of such existing as revealed by God.
In short, a non-trinitarian is not Christian for such a person rejects the true God.
Deity does not mean trinity...trinity was made up...anyone who believes in the trinity is an isolator worshipping multiple gods...
In short, a non-trinitarian is not Christian for such a person rejects the true God.
Kind of sucks for the Apostles.
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