Eve conceived Cain and Abel in Gan Eden... (crucified, Moses, Jesus Christ)
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7 Then the LORD God formed man of thedustof the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
1 Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman: 'Yea, hath God said: Ye shall not eat of any tree of the garden?'
14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent: 'Because thou hast done this, cursed art thou from among all cattle, and from among all beasts of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life.
You are avoiding answering very pertinent questions put to you.
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Originally Posted by Richard1965
Where are there two versions of the Garden story?...
I got the impression that you said so in relation to the Christian version and the Hebrew one.
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Because the verb was in the past-perfect implying that it had already occurred prior to eating from the tree of knowledge because G-d had told them to be fruitful and multiply before he had planted the garden?...
If you argue that the implication is that if they did not eat from the tree of life and were not immortal, then it follows that it didn't matter that they ate from the knowledge of good and evil tree.
Interesting, side note...while looking up the Hebrew word for snake HERE, I found that it literally means magic, sorcery or witchcraft...Sometimes the literal meaning of a word and how it is used contributes to the context...
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Thus G()D saying 'you shall surely die' was a lie because they were going to die anyway (according to what you say is implied).
Well, how would you figure it out?...
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Well what about thinking of it as metaphorical rather than something which has to be believed?
Well, that's certainly a possibility...The Jews don't look at Genesis as a history book anyway...They see it as communicating to them man's mission in the universe...
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Whoa! Now lets be reasonable here. The serpent was not 'just another beast of the fields!' The fact that the story says the serpent could speak a language means that it was far more than that.
However, that is all the information on the serpent that is given...I think it is wrong to conjecture more than is actually written there...That is all that I am saying...
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The serpent was instrumental in getting the pair to eat the forbidden fruit which cause them to think they would die (when - as you say - they were going to die anyway)
No, I think that it just got Eve to eat the fruit, Eve got Adam to eat the fruit...This is why Adam turned around and blamed the women for his sin and blamed G-d for giving him the woman...He took no responsibility for his actions...
However, your point is valid in that He told Adam, not Eve, that he would die if he ate from the tree of life...I wonder of it more or less meant loss of innocence rather than actual death?...
Where do you think the serpent got its information from?
It has been mentioned somewhere else that 'Satan' acts as a kind of voice against G()D - created by G()D for that purpose...the Serpent too seems to be a creation of G()Ds for similar purpose, but ultimately the G()D you believe in here is even slipperier than a serpent for his ability to tell his 'children' such fables, place something in the garden and forbid them to eat from it knowing full well that the likelihood they would do so was well on the cards, placing a talking being into the situation which would bring their focus upon the forbidden thing and question the validity of the G()D and his commands and make them think that they would DIE when they ate of the fruit, when all along they were going to DIE anyway!
Now - I can be forgiven for thinking of those who endorse such an idea of a G()D as being people who cannot and should never be trusted as being able to speak and live truth.
interesting, side note...while looking up the hebrew word for snake here, i found that it literally means magic, sorcery or witchcraft...sometimes the literal meaning of a word and how it is used contributes to the context...
"Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made."
"Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air"
It walked.
The Lord God cursed it to move about the earth on its belly.
“Because you have done this,
You are cursed more than all cattle,
And more than every beast of the field;
On your belly you shall go..."
Thus it can be assumed to have walked on legs prior to this curse.
(Note: All the beasts of the field were 'cursed' in some way, judging by the phrasing.)
There is no mention of the ability to talk also being taken from the Serpent, but since there are no known cases of taking snakes, we can assume that its mouth was too full of dust and hissy-ness to be much use for talking.
"And you shall eat dust
All the days of your life."
So we have a species whose DNA coding was drastically altered in order to make the curse real.
It was named by Adam.
"Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name."
Use of incorrect data.
Adam and the Serpent must have spent time conversing because the Serpent knew things which it later relayed to Eve during the temptation process.
(The only other place the Serpent might have got the data from would be in listening in on the conversations Adam had with this 'voice in the garden' which is attributed with being the voice of the Lord God and from listening to Adam teaching Eve what The Lord God has taught to him)
((One other way this could have happened is address near the end of this post)) >***<
"Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman, “Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?â€"
The question is a leading one designed to get Eve to focus on the ToKoGaE (the forbidden tree).
(Obviously Adam, Eve and the Serpent are all close to that tree at the time.)
The question is also purposefully incorrect data, designed to get Eve to correct the Serpent as to the Lord Gods instructions (as conveyed to her by Adam)
"And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden..."
Adam remains quiet throughout the interaction. This is important to note, because it bears witness to Adams own lack of understanding gratitude and valor. I mention it at this stage to emphasis this point.
Eve continues...
"...but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said..."
Adam is the one who taught Eve what the Lord God had taught him.
Then the Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it. 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.â€
So it was like this. The Lord God told Adam and Adam told Eve, thus Eve was relaying data which she got from Adam.
So this is what TLG told Adam:
but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.â€
And this is what Adam told Eve:
‘You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.’
See what happened there? The word of TLG was added to.
(This is really important because I have the feeling the TLG does NOT like his words been added to. It is a theme which crops up in the writ from time to time.)
Adding to = twisting so that its original context is distorted).
Now it could be argued that it was Eve who added that extra bit, just exaggerating the instruction in order to bring home the point.
But Adam was present at the time and did not see the need to correct her. This implies that he agrees with Eves take on things - most likely because it was he who added to the instruction when conveying it to Eve.
The Serpent see its opportunity to take advantage of the addition to the command...
"Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die..."
Cunning slitherine! So now all it has to do is convince Eve to reach up and touch the fruit and when nothing untoward happens to her, she will be embolden to take a bite yes? Yes!
The Serpent knew things about the Lord God which Adam and Eve did not know.
But to add to the prize the Serpent continues to say:
"...For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.â€
***How is it do you suppose that the Serpent was privy to the information of 'The Gods'?
Because upon banishing the couple into the greater world for their part in the incident, this is stated:
Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil.
As I said earlier, all three were near the ToKoGaE because...
"So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit...
reached up and touched it! (Look no harm done!)
and ate." Might as well since to know what the Lord God knows would be wisdom right? Nothing wrong with a little wisdom right?
Only well...knowing the difference between good and evil is not in itself wisdom. That is only part of what being wise is all about...
Now it could be argued that the incidences happened on separate occasions. That the seed of the idea was planted in Eve's consciousness by the Serpent and she thought about it and then one day while out walking with her husband they came to the tree and then decided to give it a go...
...but...
the story does not read like that and if it had, then Adam was certain unquestionably keen to give it a go too... but not until Eve first does it...just to make sure nothing untoward does happen.
"She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate."
And then - well they noticed that they were naked!
"Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked;"
Thus, the affect of eating the fruit was pretty much immediate. This would suggest that Eve knew immediately that she was naked before she passed the fruit on to her partner. She already felt shame and this did not stop her from pffering the fruit to Adam.
Therefore it is also likely that she understood (at least on an intuitive level) that Adam had miss-informed her and had used her - like a lab-rat - and thus she used her new found 'wisdom' to decide to offer Adam the fruit that he would most certainly partake of it and share in this new 'wisdom'.
She made a choice to do so. What if she had chosen not to? Would Adam had picked his own and eaten it?
I would say yes he would have anyway. But Eve chose to be the one to offer it to him. knowing that if he accepted then he too would feel ashamed to be naked as well as understand his role in the process.
Guilt.
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Originally Posted by Richard1965
Well, that's certainly a possibility...the jews don't look at genesis as a history book anyway...they see it as communicating to them man's mission in the universe...
Without guilt, 'man's mission in the universe' would have been difficult to kick start.
Innocence and ignorance do not survivors make.
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Originally Posted by Richard1965
However, that is all the information on the serpent that is given...i think it is wrong to conjecture more than is actually written there...that is all that i am saying...
Well when I do so, please point that out.
In the mean time I am taking the story (as do you) and commenting on that data. It is not a case of making conjecture when I said:
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Now lets be reasonable here. The serpent was not 'just another beast of the fields!' The fact that the story says the serpent could speak a language means that it was far more than that.
The creature (species) could TALK. IT could interact with Adam and Eve and understand complex language constructions and how to use those things to advantage and manipulate through spoken word.
Thus it is NOT conjecture on my part to say that it wasn't your average everyday variety 'beast of the field'.
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No, i think that it just got eve to eat the fruit, eve got adam to eat the fruit...this is why adam turned around and blamed the women for his sin and blamed g-d for giving him the woman...he took no responsibility for his actions...
(Note TLG did not question the Serpent on it part and allow the serpent to speak in it's own defense.)
Perhaps TLG did not want this to happen for reasons which remain mostly hidden? As I said, where did the Serpent get its data from - data which Adam and Eve were not privy to? The only answer has to be that TLG told the Serpent.
Who else could have given this data *** to the Serpent?
It is reasonable to think that TLG did not want to be implicated in front of Adam and Eve (because the data could drastically affect the mission which TLG had planned for Adam and Eve.
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Originally Posted by Richard1965
However, your point is valid in that he told adam, not eve, that he would die if he ate from the tree of life...i wonder of it more or less meant loss of innocence rather than actual death?...
Metaphorically this is a correct interpretation. Lose of innocence is the subject of the story.
Why?
Why did TLG require that the pair had to loose their innocence? The answer has everything to do with the MISSION.
Without knowing good from evil, the pair would not survive out in the big bad world.
Without GUILT, the pair would not deem to be driven to obey TLG in relation to the big bad world. and might walk a different path.
In relation to the Hebrews, it eventuated that TLG's plan would be implemented through them, just as it had been through Adam and Eve (and the Serpent).
Getting back to the 'magic and snake' having the same meaning, as you pointed out - it might be that TLG and the Serpent had a thing going - much the same way TLG and Satan do... (thus the Christians 'seeing' Satan in the Serpent)
Only - as has been pointed out, Satan is a servant of The Lord God - not an enemy, but a tool for a particular purpose.
So too is the Serpent. TLG and the Serpent were in cahoots and were playing a part which was designed to test the pair.
But why?
Based on the data of the story, TLG observed Adam instruct Eve and heard Adam add to the instruction.
TLG saw the danger in adding to his words, but also would have known (been wise to) that Adam would have no understanding of the danger as Adam was innocent of the knowledge of good and evil.
However, there was a mission involved. Adam was learning how to name things etc...Adam was to subjugate the Earth. Become Lord of the Earth by following the word of TLG.
This required that Adam needed to understand the nature of the knowledge of good and evil and in that knowledge had to make the correct choices, so in order for this to be the case, Adam (A-damned) had to lose innocence. Such a thing means a total loss of ignorance and innocence. Without the loss, Adam would not survive the big bad world.
The Serpent was instrumental in helping that to happen so that TLG was not implicated until such a time as it could be understood through the lends of the knowledge of good and evil WHY that was necessary.
Smoke and Mirrors.
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Originally Posted by Me.
Where do you think the serpent got its information from?
It has been mentioned somewhere else that 'satan' acts as a kind of voice against g()d - created by g()d for that purpose...the serpent too seems to be a creation of g()ds for similar purpose, but ultimately the g()d you believe in here is even slipperier than a serpent for his ability to tell his 'children' such fables, place something in the garden and forbid them to eat from it knowing full well that the likelihood they would do so was well on the cards, placing a talking being into the situation which would bring their focus upon the forbidden thing and question the validity of the g()d and his commands and make them think that they would die when they ate of the fruit, when all along they were going to die anyway!
7 Then the LORD God formed man of thedustof the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
1 Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman: 'Yea, hath God said: Ye shall not eat of any tree of the garden?'
14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent: 'Because thou hast done this, cursed art thou from among all cattle, and from among all beasts of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life.
I got the impression that you said so in relation to the Christian version and the Hebrew one.
I thought you meant regarding chapters 1 & 2 in Genesis...What I meant was that the COT is translated differently into English as opposed to the Hebrew TaNaKh translated into English...One was translated by Gentiles while the other was translated by Jews knowledgeable of Hebrew...
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Citation needed. Do you have the verses?
1Now the man knew his wife Eve, and she conceived and bore Cain, and she said, "I have acquired a man with the Lord."
Rashi's Commentary:
Now the man knew: [This took place], prior to the above episode, before he sinned and was banished from the Garden of Eden. Also the conception and the birth [took place before], for if it were written: וַיֵּדַע אָדָם it would mean that after he had been banished, he had sons. — [from Sanh. 38b]
Cain: Heb. קַיִן, based on קָנִיתִי, I acquired.
with the Lord: Heb. אֶת יהוה, like עִם יהוה, with the Lord. When He created me and my husband, He alone created us, but with this one, we are partners with Him. — [from Gen. Rabbah 22:2, Mid. Tadshei, Niddah 31a]
Cain… his brother Abel: Heb. אֶת קַיִן אֶת אָחִיו אֶת הָבֶל. The word אֶת is repeated three times to suggest additional things. This teaches that a twin sister was born with Cain, and with Abel were born two. Therefore, it is said: וַתֹּסֶף, and she continued, or added. — [from Gen. Rabbah 22:2, 3]
"Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made."
"Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air"
A thought just occurred to me...Just the way that verse is worded above, "the serpent was more cunning THAN any beast of the field...It doesn't say "any OTHER beast of the field...So, if this beast could talk and think, maybe this is implying that it was MAN that rationalized...Because, taking a closer look at the verse, it really doesn't imply that the serpent was a beast...
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It walked.
The Lord God cursed it to move about the earth on its belly.
“Because you have done this, You are cursed more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you shall go..."
Thus it can be assumed to have walked on legs prior to this curse.
(Note: All the beasts of the field were 'cursed' in some way, judging by the phrasing.)
There is no mention of the ability to talk also being taken from the Serpent, but since there are no known cases of taking snakes, we can assume that its mouth was too full of dust and hissy-ness to be much use for talking.
"And you shall eat dust All the days of your life."
So we have a species whose DNA coding was drastically altered in order to make the curse real.
Funny-Funny...
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It was named by Adam.
"Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name."
Use of incorrect data.
Adam and the Serpent must have spent time conversing because the Serpent knew things which it later relayed to Eve during the temptation process.
(The only other place the Serpent might have got the data from would be in listening in on the conversations Adam had with this 'voice in the garden' which is attributed with being the voice of the Lord God and from listening to Adam teaching Eve what The Lord God has taught to him)
((One other way this could have happened is address near the end of this post)) >***<
"Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman, “Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?â€"
The question is a leading one designed to get Eve to focus on the ToKoGaE (the forbidden tree).
(Obviously Adam, Eve and the Serpent are all close to that tree at the time.)
The question is also purposefully incorrect data, designed to get Eve to correct the Serpent as to the Lord Gods instructions (as conveyed to her by Adam)
"And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden..."
Adam remains quiet throughout the interaction. This is important to note, because it bears witness to Adams own lack of understanding gratitude and valor. I mention it at this stage to emphasis this point.
Eve continues...
"...but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said..."
Adam is the one who taught Eve what the Lord God had taught him.
As I said above, this could possibly be referring to man himself...
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Then the Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it. 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.â€
In the TaNaKh it says "to protect it"...Not being contentious, just pointing that out...
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So it was like this. The Lord God told Adam and Adam told Eve, thus Eve was relaying data which she got from Adam.
So this is what TLG told Adam:
but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.â€
Actually, that says, "good and bad"...
Interesting:
this word,הַדַּעַת, in this verse,יזוּמֵעֵץ הַדַּעַת טוֹב וָרָע לֹא תֹאכַל מִמֶּנּוּ כִּי בְּיוֹם אֲכָלְךָ מִמֶּנּוּ מוֹת תָּמוּת:, Actually has these senses attributed to it:
knowledge, wisdom ; intelligence, understanding, common sense. logic ; awareness, consciousness ; בדעתו - to intend ; לדעתו - in his opinion ; מדעת - deliberately, knowing full well, knowingly
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And this is what Adam told Eve:
‘You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.’
See what happened there? The word of TLG was added to.
(This is really important because I have the feeling the TLG does NOT like his words been added to. It is a theme which crops up in the writ from time to time.)
Adding to = twisting so that its original context is distorted).
Now it could be argued that it was Eve who added that extra bit, just exaggerating the instruction in order to bring home the point.
But Adam was present at the time and did not see the need to correct her. This implies that he agrees with Eves take on things - most likely because it was he who added to the instruction when conveying it to Eve.
I see your point here...That would be a logical conclusion...
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The Serpent see its opportunity to take advantage of the addition to the command...
"Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die..."
Cunning slitherine! So now all it has to do is convince Eve to reach up and touch the fruit and when nothing untoward happens to her, she will be embolden to take a bite yes? Yes!
You seem ecstatic about this event...
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Getting back to the 'magic and snake' having the same meaning, as you pointed out - it might be that TLG and the Serpent had a thing going - much the same way TLG and Satan do... (thus the Christians 'seeing' Satan in the Serpent)
Only - as has been pointed out, Satan is a servant of The Lord God - not an enemy, but a tool for a particular purpose.
So too is the Serpent. TLG and the Serpent were in cahoots and were playing a part which was designed to test the pair.
I see your point...
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But why?
Based on the data of the story, TLG observed Adam instruct Eve and heard Adam add to the instruction.
TLG saw the danger in adding to his words, but also would have known (been wise to) that Adam would have no understanding of the danger as Adam was innocent of the knowledge of good and evil.
However, there was a mission involved. Adam was learning how to name things etc...Adam was to subjugate the Earth. Become Lord of the Earth by following the word of TLG.
This required that Adam needed to understand the nature of the knowledge of good and evil and in that knowledge had to make the correct choices, so in order for this to be the case, Adam (A-damned) had to lose innocence. Such a thing means a total loss of ignorance and innocence. Without the loss, Adam would not survive the big bad world.
The Serpent was instrumental in helping that to happen so that TLG was not implicated until such a time as it could be understood through the lends of the knowledge of good and evil WHY that was necessary.
Smoke and Mirrors.
Adam not only named things, but he was told to be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it and have dominion over it...This was before the Garden in Eden was planted...So, in order for them to procreate, they must have been having intercourse, because they were told to procreate...And, this was BEFORE the Garden was planted...BTW, you mean lens...
Adam (A-damned)???...I hope that was just facetiousness...
I thought you meant regarding chapters 1 & 2 in Genesis...What I meant was that the COT is translated differently into English as opposed to the Hebrew TaNaKh translated into English...One was translated by Gentiles while the other was translated by Jews knowledgeable of Hebrew...
Okay.
So do you think the 2 chapters are tell the same story or are the accounts different enough to warrant closer examination?
I see what you mean by the difference in Gentile and Jewish translation differences.
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Now the man knew his wife Eve, and she conceived and bore Cain, and she said, "I have acquired a man with the Lord."
Rashi's Commentary
Now the man knew: [This took place], prior to the above episode, before he sinned and was banished from the Garden of Eden. Also the conception and the birth [took place before], for if it were written: וַיֵּדַע אָדָם it would mean that after he had been banished, he had sons
Cain: Heb. קַיִן, based on קָנִיתִי, I acquired.
with the Lord: Heb. אֶת יהוה, like עִם יהוה, with the Lord. When He created me and my husband, He alone created us, but with this one, we are partners with Him. — [from Gen. Rabbah 22:2, Mid. Tadshei, Niddah 31a]
Cain… his brother Abel: Heb. אֶת קַיִן אֶת אָחִיו אֶת הָבֶל. The word אֶת is repeated three times to suggest additional things. This teaches that a twin sister was born with Cain, and with Abel were born two. Therefore, it is said: וַתֹּסֶף, and she continued, or added. — [from Gen. Rabbah 22:2, 3]
"I have acquired a man with the Lord."
What they hey does that mean?
More to the point, why is it important to you (in relation to creating a thread about it)?
The knowledge is far more ancient that the Hebrews, and it is interesting that Judaists, Christians and Muslims prefer to turn a blind eye in relation to this, the source of their beliefs.
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A thought just occurred to me...Just the way that verse is worded above, "the serpent was more cunning THAN any beast of the field...It doesn't say "any OTHER beast of the field...So, if this beast could talk and think, maybe this is implying that it was MAN that rationalized...Because, taking a closer look at the verse, it really doesn't imply that the serpent was a beast...
While this aligns with the same concept which can be taken from TLG's interactions with Satan (that Satan is an another way of saying 'The Lord God's internal rationalizing (etc)' ) it cannot be dovetailed into the story because prior to eating the forbidden fruit, the 'knowing' wasn't part of Adams conscious awareness.
So, no. The Serpent is not metaphorical of Adams inner conflicts of conscientiousness. One cannot be conscientious without some understanding of what is good and what is bad.
The Serpent is TLGs instrument to assist with getting the pair to become conscientious. (Think 'glove-puppet'.
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Funny-Funny...
Nonetheless, we have a species whose DNA coding was drastically altered in order to make the curse real...or (smoke and mirrors) it was made to appear that way to add the element of fear and dread in relation to upsetting TLG. "Just remember what he did to the Serpent Species"!
But that was just a trick. In reality, the Serpent was hidden from the eyes of the pair (perhaps in a puff of smoke) and when the smoke cleared, behold! There was this thing on the ground which the pair had never seen before... ?
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As I said above, this could possibly be referring to man himself...
No. This would infer that Adam was purposefully deceiving Eve. That it was he who was having conversation with Eve and reasoning that TLG was keeping things from them.
TLG was indeed keeping things from them, but how were they to know that when they had no ability to reason in that manner in the first place? They were innocents without conscientiousness.
Which leads to the practical realization that this 'Serpent' being also knew good and evil else it would not have been able to make the argument in the manner which would convince the pair of the reasonableness of having such knowledge.
But if we were to take the story metaphorically then we could say that it is one which in its own way describes the evolution of human thinking in regards to the development of conscientiousness.
For some reason, such a state required the notion of an idea of G()D (representing 'good') and something which works against good.
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In the TaNaKh it says "to protect it"...Not being contentious, just pointing that out...
Quite.
So what was there to protect? A tree?
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Actually, that says, "good and bad"...
So there is difference between bad and evil?
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Interesting:
this word,הַדַּעַת, in this verse,יזוּמֵעֵץ הַדַּעַת טוֹב וָרָע לֹא תֹאכַל מִמֶּנּוּ כִּי בְּיוֹם אֲכָלְךָ מִמֶּנּוּ מוֹת תָּמוּת:, Actually has these senses attributed to it:
knowledge, wisdom ; intelligence, understanding, common sense. logic ; awareness, consciousness ; בדעתו - to intend ; לדעתו - in his opinion ; מדעת - deliberately, knowing full well, knowingly
Which word are you referring to in that verse?
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I see your point here...That would be a logical conclusion...
Yes.
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You seem ecstatic about this event...
Metaphorically.
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I see your point...
Exactly. Mission accomplished. TLG now has something they can work with in relation to the bigger agenda.
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Adam not only named things, but he was told to be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it and have dominion over it...This was before the Garden in Eden was planted...So, in order for them to procreate, they must have been having intercourse, because they were told to procreate...And, this was BEFORE the Garden was planted...
I still don't understand the significance.
So -metaphorically this implies that people were bonking and breeding before they were using their brains to names things and order things into categories and 'hear the voice of TLG' and interact with any idea of G()D, before they developed conscientiousness.
Sounds like evolution.
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BTW, you mean lens...
Yes. Glad you picked that up.
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Adam (A-damned)???...I hope that was just facetiousness...
Nope, that was purposeful. Cursed was Adam....metaphorically speaking. Developing conscientiousness involves giving up a lot of things which were not even issues beforehand.
Unless The Lord God is actually metaphorical of a highly advanced species with immense scientific know-how, and space faring capabilities, this whole Hebrew creation story really has to be taken metaphorically rather than literally.
So do you think the 2 chapters are tell the same story or are the accounts different enough to warrant closer examination?
Well, according to the sages, chapter 1 is a brief outline and chapter 2 is more detail of how things were created...
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I see what you mean by the difference in Gentile and Jewish translation differences.
Did you actually open a real TaNaKh and see for yourself?...
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"I have acquired a man with the Lord."
What they hey does that mean?
With the [help] of the Lord...Didn't you read the Rashi?...
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More to the point, why is it important to you (in relation to creating a thread about it)?
What's your point?...
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The Serpent and The Lord God ***
