Eve conceived Cain and Abel in Gan Eden... (punishment, Jesus, creation)
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Cain… his brother Abel: Heb. אֶת קַיִן אֶת אָחִיו אֶת הָבֶל. The word אֶת is repeated three times to suggest additional things. This teaches that a twin sister was born with Cain, and with Abel were born two. Therefore, it is said: וַתֹּסֶף, and she continued, or added. — [from Gen. Rabbah 22:2, 3][/color]
Pure speculation and was done so in order to understand where Cains wife came from.
A thought just occurred to me...Just the way that verse is worded above, "the serpent was more cunning THAN any beast of the field...It doesn't say "any OTHER beast of the field...So, if this beast could talk and think, maybe this is implying that it was MAN that rationalized...Because, taking a closer look at the verse, it really doesn't imply that the serpent was a beast...
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It is in reference to man Richard and the serpent is a beast.
The nachesh/serpent (don't know if I spelled that correctly, going from memory) is that which Moses put up that people looked to and were healed. According to the NT that episode is in reference to Jesus Christ being crucified.
The number of man is the number of a beast.
Ecc.3 states
18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
Pure speculation and was done so in order to understand where Cains wife came from.
Yea...I'm not sure that I would agree with Rashi on this...However, The man was a Jewish scholar that understood how his own Hebrew language worked...So, idk...
Well, according to the sages, chapter 1 is a brief outline and chapter 2 is more detail of how things were created...
Detail? Okay.... well I have noted some differences between the Gentile version and the Jewish one.
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Did you actually open a real TaNaKh and see for yourself?...
I don;t have a 'real' one, don't speak or read Hebrew...what I did do was go online here for the Jewish and here for the Gentile.
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With the [help] of the Lord...Didn't you read the Rashi?...
Yeah I understand that but what does it mean? Did the TLG have to show her what to do?
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What's your point?...
For what purpose did you create this thread? Why is it important in your estimate that it is known that the children were born before Adam and Eve were placed in the garden?
Detail? Okay.... well I have noted some differences between the Gentile version and the Jewish one.
And that is the first step to understanding things...My question is why was it translated different?...What was the agenda?...
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Originally Posted by Rotagivan
I don;t have a 'real' one, don't speak or read Hebrew...what I did do was go online here for the Jewish and here for the Gentile.
Well, Chabad.org is a good Hebrew to English translation, I haven't seen any bias there...Yet...
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Originally Posted by Rotagivan
Yeah I understand that but what does it mean? Did the TLG have to show her what to do?
I think the fact that Jews believe that everyone that is born is born of G-d (comes from above, i.e. G-d)...This, I believe, was the reasoning behind the question that Nicodemus gave to Yeshua's, "Unless a man be born from above, he may not understand the Reign of G-d", "Can a man enter into his mother's womb a second time and be born?"...[/quote]
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Originally Posted by Rotagivan
For what purpose did you create this thread? Why is it important in your estimate that it is known that the children were born before Adam and Eve were placed in the garden?
Well, if one has proper understanding of what has been written, in context, one will see things a bit clearer...
Example:
Majority of Christians state that if Adam and Eve hadn't eaten the fruit of the tree of knowledge that we'd still be living in a peaceful paradise, however the text does not state that that was the reason that they were expelled from Gan Eden, it was to prevent them from reaching out to the tree of life and eating and therefore living forever...Therefore, after the expulsion, G-d placed a Cherubim with a sword (notice in the Hebrew TaNaKh is says:
24And He drove the man out, and He stationed from the east of the Garden of Eden the cherubim and the blade of the revolving sword, to guard the way to the Tree of Life.
Rashi's Commentary:
east of the Garden of Eden: in the east of the Garden of Eden, outside the garden. — [from Gen. Rabbah 21:9]
the cherubim: Angels of destruction. — [from Exod. Rabbah 9:11]
the revolving sword: It had a blade to frighten him from re-entering the garden. The Targum of לַהַט is שְׁנַן, like,“He drew the blade (שְׁנָנָא)” in Sanhedrin (82a), and in Old French it is lame. There are Aggadic midrashim, but I have come only to interpret its simple meaning.
There is no mention of the sword being a "flaming" sword...So, how did that make it into the Gentile translation into English, when the Hebrew doesn't even say it?) to guard the way to the tree of life...
And notice above, most people call the Garden, Eden, when in actuality the Garden was IN a place called Eden...And by looking at the mention of the rivers and such, and everything being "east of" Eden, I would have to conclude, for the time being, that Eden was somewhere in Egypt (or as one thing I read said, Ethiopia)...And this seems to agree with modern science observing that our genetics sprang from the continent of Africa...Not Mesopotamia, if you read of the expulsion, it was East of Eden, which would put them in and around Mesopotamia...Which, was at the time, for me anyway (I'm 50 now), where man originated...Maybe that is where civilization began, but where man came from was Africa...
And that is the first step to understanding things...My question is why was it translated different?...What was the agenda?...
One would have to look at what was changed and then try to build logical reasons why those changes happened.
So far in looking at the differences (in relation to the Serpent) I have not notices the changes obviously pointing to any agenda...
...not suggesting there isn't one...what do you think the agenda was?
Example:
Hebrew: For God knows that on the day that you eat thereof, your eyes will be opened, and you will be like angels, knowing good and evil."
Gentile: For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
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I think the fact that Jews believe that everyone that is born is born of G-d (comes from above, i.e. G-d)...This, I believe, was the reasoning behind the question that Nicodemus gave to Yeshua's, "Unless a man be born from above, he may not understand the Reign of G-d", "Can a man enter into his mother's womb a second time and be born?"...
This also seems to be the general accepted understanding of the explorers of spiritual metaphysics. Some (like myself) understand this to signify that no one is separate from that which we really are (which many refer to as G()D but of course there are differences in ideas as to what G()D is.)
Others consider it blasphemy to think of oneself as G()D (in other words they separate the conscious human being from G()D. )
(^This attitude has no affect on me or my understanding/idea of G()D. )
Quote:
Well, if one has proper understanding of what has been written, in context, one will see things a bit clearer...
Example:
Majority of Christians state that if Adam and Eve hadn't eaten the fruit of the tree of knowledge that we'd still be living in a peaceful paradise, however the text does not state that that was the reason that they were expelled from Gan Eden, it was to prevent them from reaching out to the tree of life and eating and therefore living forever...Therefore, after the expulsion, G-d placed a Cherubim with a sword (notice in the Hebrew TaNaKh is says:
24And He drove the man out, and He stationed from the east of the Garden of Eden the cherubim and the blade of the revolving sword, to guard the way to the Tree of Life.
Rashi's Commentary:
east of the Garden of Eden: in the east of the Garden of Eden, outside the garden. — [from Gen. Rabbah 21:9]
the cherubim: Angels of destruction. — [from Exod. Rabbah 9:11]
the revolving sword: It had a blade to frighten him from re-entering the garden. The Targum of לַהַט is שְׁנַן, like,“He drew the blade (שְׁנָנָא)” in Sanhedrin (82a), and in Old French it is lame. There are Aggadic midrashim, but I have come only to interpret its simple meaning.
There is no mention of the sword being a "flaming" sword...So, how did that make it into the Gentile translation into English, when the Hebrew doesn't even say it?) to guard the way to the tree of life...
Okay - so how then does this reflect an agenda? In what way does this seriously alter the story-line or the idea of the G()D involved in that story?
From what I can gather by your comment above, you are saying that paradise on earth for humans to enjoy was never part of the long term agenda of that idea of G()D.
It sounds to me this is what you are saying. Would that be the case?
Quote:
And notice above, most people call the Garden, Eden, when in actuality the Garden was IN a place called Eden...And by looking at the mention of the rivers and such, and everything being "east of" Eden, I would have to conclude, for the time being, that Eden was somewhere in Egypt (or as one thing I read said, Ethiopia)...And this seems to agree with modern science observing that our genetics sprang from the continent of Africa...Not Mesopotamia, if you read of the expulsion, it was East of Eden, which would put them in and around Mesopotamia...Which, was at the time, for me anyway (I'm 50 now), where man originated...Maybe that is where civilization began, but where man came from was Africa...
Well whatever, today there is no place like that called 'Eden' and no garden and no rotating propeller like blade...
But yes, the picture is plainly different. It now reads to me like G()D may not have been that involved with this at all and it was an 'angelic' operation involving angelic agenda.
Which fits into my understanding that 'Angels' and 'space faring species' are the same thing.
So - would it be safe to assume that the Gentile imagery of 'Angels' (wings and stuff) is not the same as the Hebrews imagery?
One would have to look at what was changed and then try to build logical reasons why those changes happened.
Backward engineering...
Quote:
So far in looking at the differences (in relation to the Serpent) I have not noticed the changes obviously pointing to any agenda...
...not suggesting there isn't one...what do you think the agenda was?
Example:
Hebrew: For God knows that on the day that you eat thereof, your eyes will be opened, and you will be like angels, knowing good and evil."
Gentile: For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
It may have been changed (the Gentile translation) in order to portray the utter hopelessness of man attempting to follow G-d's laws, thereby putting the blame on Satan and putting him there in the Garden in place of the serpent (a beast of the field, according to the text)...Thereby supporting what the New Testament says...
Of course you realize that there is a big difference between G-d and the Angels (which according to Rashi, were created on the second day of creation, thereby answering the question of who He was speaking to when He said, "Let us make man in our image."...
Quote:
This also seems to be the general accepted understanding of the explorers of spiritual metaphysics. Some (like myself) understand this to signify that no one is separate from that which we really are (which many refer to as G()D but of course there are differences in ideas as to what G()D is.)
Others consider it blasphemy to think of oneself as G()D (in other words they separate the conscious human being from G()D. )
(^This attitude has no affect on me or my understanding/idea of G()D. )
Heard of the G-d particle?...
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Okay - so how then does this reflect an agenda? In what way does this seriously alter the story-line or the idea of the G()D involved in that story?
Oh, why, oh, why didn't they just say no to the serpent, we could be living in a paradise...I think, according to Rashi, the creation of man was just the beginning of G-d's plan to create a people for Himself...
The agenda?...You have the New Testament, however, it does not line up with the TaNaKh...What to do...Modify, modify, modify...If one reads the COT and the CNT, one can reconcile the two, however, if one Reads the TaNaKh and the CNT, one cannot reconcile the two...
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From what I can gather by your comment above, you are saying that paradise on earth for humans to enjoy was never part of the long term agenda of that idea of G()D.
It sounds to me this is what you are saying. Would that be the case?
Well, that is kinda what Rashi says...Man had to know G&B and strike out there on his own, otherwise he would not have been able to grow and be nurtured...lWe are still growing...However, the Christians have turned it into this big war between G-d and Satan (one of His angels)...In reality, it is a war between G-d and man...
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Well whatever, today there is no place like that called 'Eden' and no garden and no rotating propeller like blade...
But yes, the picture is plainly different. It now reads to me like G()D may not have been that involved with this at all and it was an 'angelic' operation involving angelic agenda.
Which fits into my understanding that 'Angels' and 'space faring species' are the same thing.
So - would it be safe to assume that the Gentile imagery of 'Angels' (wings and stuff) is not the same as the Hebrews imagery?
How "old" were Adam and Eve Duggar when they were "born?"
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Originally Posted by Richard1965
Do what???...
What were A & E age when they were "created?"
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