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Fascinating documentary on how Christianity arose, the story you'll never hear from the pulpit.
Historians reconstruct how Christianity came about and central to the rise of Christianity is NOT Paul, but Roman Emperor, Vespasian and his son, Titus, both of whom were responsible for destroying Jerusalem in 70 AD. Both returned to Rome as heroes and Titus had the Roman senate declare his father, Vespasian a god (god the Father?) and later himself the son of a god (god the son?).
Titus presented his proposal to deify his father to the Roman senate shortly after Vespasian's death around 80 AD (curiously about the time gospels start to emerge) and with forged documents in hand to prove his father's deity, the senate approves Titus' request and makes Vespasian a god. Watch the documentary below starting around 20:50 and continue about 5 minutes and you get the full explanation.
"History Of Christianity - How Christianity Was Invented"
There are a lot of theories and we can't be sure. There are those who suggest that Seneca fudged up an entire new religion, taking Julius Caesar as a model. Others propose that the roman administration conspired with the Sanhedrin and one of its most eloquen tgangmembers, named Saul, to undermine the Jewish zealot opposition with this tale of Jesus.
Josephus, for whatever reason, elected after getting beat by Vespasian at Jotapa professed to recognize the future emperor as the promised messiah. I doubt that many Jews then or now would have agreed with him.
I...to give my purely personal and merely evidence-based opinion..consider that Jesus was a real person. And a surprising amount of what the gospels report he did actually happened. The triune god idea imposed on Christianity by Constantine can be traced from a purely human messiah (receiving HolySpirit power at the baptism) through an increasingly godlike (being born with Holyspirit power as in Luke) being to John's all but God in person and the final step in Constantine replacing the State religion of deified emperors with a deified Messiah.
If that scenario stacks up, then the others really don't.
This more of a fiction novel like the davinci code than any truth of the living God through Jesus Christ , and people who have been baptized by the Holy Spirit will know God and know of fabrication of some fiction of roman emperor who is a son of God ..................... See I came to know the truth of Christ when I was baptized in water and right after I got baptized by the Holy Spirit of God who came on my life and abides on my body even today many years later which proved to here that the Book of Acts 2 when the disciple and 120 people first where anointed and baptized by the Holy Spirit as a promise of the Father God on the sacrifice of Jesus Christ at the cross ........................ See I never learned this religion from a books and some how believed , I learned by the testimony of the living God living on my Body and abiding on my life removing evil and peace is here and through this the cross of Jesus Christ is very much a fact
Fascinating documentary on how Christianity arose, the story you'll never hear from the pulpit.
Historians reconstruct how Christianity came about and central to the rise of Christianity is NOT Paul, but Roman Emperor, Vespasian and his son, Titus, both of whom were responsible for destroying Jerusalem in 70 AD. Both returned to Rome as heroes and Titus had the Roman senate declare his father, Vespasian a god (god the Father?) and later himself the son of a god (god the son?).
Titus presented his proposal to deify his father to the Roman senate shortly after Vespasian's death around 80 AD (curiously about the time gospels start to emerge) and with forged documents in hand to prove his father's deity, the senate approves Titus' request and makes Vespasian a god. Watch the documentary below starting around 20:50 and continue about 5 minutes and you get the full explanation.
"History Of Christianity - How Christianity Was Invented"
That's a closed -minded a response as could be wished.
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA
Fantasy, as Jesus was known before Vespasian was Emperor or Titus a man.
Was he? The gospels say that he lived in the time of Tiberius, but they are not to be trusted. True, Tacitus does say that Jesus was executed by Pilate, but he was writing later than the time of the Flavians, so could simply be recounting the Christian claims. Even Josephus was writing later than that, if you accept the faked 'Flavian testament'. So nobody knew of Jesus before Vespasian. Unless you accept the Gospels without question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hljc
This more of a fiction novel like the davinci code than any truth of the living God through Jesus Christ , and people who have been baptized by the Holy Spirit will know God and know of fabrication of some fiction of roman emperor who is a son of God ..................... See I came to know the truth of Christ when I was baptized in water and right after I got baptized by the Holy Spirit of God who came on my life and abides on my body even today many years later which proved to here that the Book of Acts 2 when the disciple and 120 people first where anointed and baptized by the Holy Spirit as a promise of the Father God on the sacrifice of Jesus Christ at the cross ........................ See I never learned this religion from a books and some how believed , I learned by the testimony of the living God living on my Body and abiding on my life removing evil and peace is here and through this the cross of Jesus Christ is very much a fact
This appeal to personal faith -belief over anything resembling evidence is of no value or relevance in the discussion.
There are a lot of theories and we can't be sure. There are those who suggest that Seneca fudged up an entire new religion, taking Julius Caesar as a model. Others propose that the roman administration conspired with the Sanhedrin and one of its most eloquen tgangmembers, named Saul, to undermine the Jewish zealot opposition with this tale of Jesus.
Josephus, for whatever reason, elected after getting beat by Vespasian at Jotapa professed to recognize the future emperor as the promised messiah. I doubt that many Jews then or now would have agreed with him.
I...to give my purely personal and merely evidence-based opinion..consider that Jesus was a real person. And a surprising amount of what the gospels report he did actually happened. The triune god idea imposed on Christianity by Constantine can be traced from a purely human messiah (receiving HolySpirit power at the baptism) through an increasingly godlike (being born with Holyspirit power as in Luke) being to John's all but God in person and the final step in Constantine replacing the State religion of deified emperors with a deified Messiah.
If that scenario stacks up, then the others really don't.
Very interesting. However, try injecting this scenario into the picture:
The Romans had had enough of these rebellious messianic Jews who were professing their Messiah would be a "lion" of the tribe of Judah who would be a great warrior, a fierce leader who would free them from the oppression of Rome. That's the way the Old testament scriptures portrayed the future messiah.
The Roman economy was nearly bankrupt after the long siege of Jerusalem/Masada starting in 66 AD and ending in 73 with the nation and temple effectively destroyed. What the Romans needed more than anything would be a "meek, gentle lamb" messiah that would teach the war-like Jews to love their enemies and to submit to their authority. It's no coincidence that Jesus painting the Jews as "children of their father, satan" and several incidences putting the Romans into a favorable light, "Truly I say to you, this Roman centurion has more faith than any Hebrew I have come across", "Truly this man was the Son of God" etc.
Creating Jesus as a meek, mild messiah worked wonderfully for the Romans. As the cult began to grow the war-like Jews were gradually turned into sheep by Jesus' message of "love your enemies" (the Romans). It's not beyond the realm of imagination to suggest that it was Josephus, along with team of highly literate Roman writers who over a period of 20 years or so wrote the gospels and gradually disseminated them across the empire where, asMike555 once suggested, Christianity was not a gradual process but actually spread like wildfire all over the Mediterranean.
The Romans got what they wanted: a pacified Jewish populace who were taught via the gospels and their "savior messiah" to submit to Roman authority and to be peaceful, not warlike. All this is explained more thoroughly in the documentary's first 45 minutes.
Very interesting. However, try injecting this scenario into the picture:
The Romans had had enough of these rebellious messianic Jews who were professing their Messiah would be a "lion" of the tribe of Judah who would be a great warrior, a fierce leader who would free them from the oppression of Rome. That's the way the Old testament scriptures portrayed the future messiah.
The Roman economy was nearly bankrupt after the long siege of Jerusalem/Masada starting in 66 AD and ending in 73 with the nation and temple effectively destroyed. What the Romans needed more than anything would be a "meek, gentle lamb" messiah that would teach the war-like Jews to love their enemies and to submit to their authority. It's no coincidence that Jesus painting the Jews as "children of their father, satan" and several incidences putting the Romans into a favorable light, "Truly I say to you, this Roman centurion has more faith than any Hebrew I have come across", "Truly this man was the Son of God" etc.
Creating Jesus as a meek, mild messiah worked wonderfully for the Romans. As the cult began to grow the war-like Jews were gradually turned into sheep by Jesus' message of "love your enemies" (the Romans). It's not beyond the realm of imagination to suggest that it was Josephus, along with team of highly literate Roman writers who over a period of 20 years or so wrote the gospels and gradually disseminated them across the empire where, asMike555 once suggested, Christianity was not a gradual process but actually spread like wildfire all over the Mediterranean.
The Romans got what they wanted: a pacified Jewish populace who were taught via the gospels and their "savior messiah" to submit to Roman authority and to be peaceful, not warlike. All this is explained more thoroughly in the documentary's first 45 minutes.
You are so steeped in Carnal thinking and worldly concerns you miss the point of a Spiritual evolution of beliefs about the nature of God and our purpose, Thrill. I understand that animus that motivates you and its cause . . . but there is no point in going so far afield in your quest to demean religious nonsense using nitpicking historicity. It is NOT a historical issue. It is a Spiritual one . . a distinction you and far too many others seem unable to grasp.
You are so steeped in Carnal thinking and worldly concerns you miss the point of a Spiritual evolution of beliefs about the nature of God and our purpose, Thrill. I understand that animus that motivates you and its cause . . . but there is no point in going so far afield in your quest to demean religious nonsense using nitpicking historicity. It is NOT a historical issue. It is a Spiritual one . . a distinction you and far too many others seem unable to grasp.
Mystic, you keep going around in circles with the same monotone answer, "Thrill, you don't understand the scriptures because you're too worldly." You forget that 4/5's of the world's population also reject the scriptures as not being convincing enough to sway them that they were written by God through his Christian agents here on earth. If I don't get them I'm not alone. To me and to any of the millions of former Christians who have turned their backs on Christianity and walked away from it, it's in large part because they too find the scriptures rife with unsolvable problems. If God intended the Bible to be a document to sway people to His divine son He couldn't have done a worse job at putting it together.
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