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Old 08-14-2015, 02:47 PM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
If you think Paul was "stirring the pot", he was only (rightly) comparing our righteousness by faith to Abraham's - that was God's relationship with Abram, and now the same with us. The notion of justification by faith did not originate in the New Testament.

"Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, My soul shall have no pleasure in him." (Heb 10:38)
One, Paul didn't write Hebrews...And two, that is what the writer of Hebrews said, not Jesus...
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Old 08-14-2015, 03:15 PM
 
Location: Pilot Point, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
One, Paul didn't write Hebrews...And two, that is what the writer of Hebrews said, not Jesus...
You're a Jew - I don't expect you to receive this - yet.
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Old 08-14-2015, 03:22 PM
 
Location: On the brink of WWIII
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Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
You're a Jew - I don't expect you to receive this - yet.
I am not and I agree with Richard..
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Old 08-14-2015, 04:55 PM
 
6,366 posts, read 2,917,524 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
The works? BELIEVE on Him whom God has sent. (John 6:29)
These found at Matt 7:22-23 believe on him, yet failed--Why? Because they did not live now to do the Fathers will-Matt 7:21--most absolutely fail to do this-John 4:22-24---
This is the Fathers will, it is so ultra important, God spoke from heaven at Jesus baptism, it is the key to all of it---God said--- This is my son the beloved in whom I am well pleased--LISTEN TO HIM.
that entails, learning every single teaching, and applying every single teaching--and a very important one is---Man does not live by bread alone, but by every utterance from God=OT-NT--it takes years of study.
And this ultra important truth found at Matt 6:33--- Therefore, keep on seeking-FIRST-the kingdom and his( Jehovah) righteousness and all these other things will be added.( sustenance, covering, spirituality-Matt 6)
Most seek- $$$$ and pleasure.
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Old 08-14-2015, 05:45 PM
 
Location: Pilot Point, TX
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You people just don't understand that grace works in you to live righteously - without effort...

The difference between law and grace: looking at your works, or looking at His. Focusing on His finished work on your behalf and proclaiming yourself "the righteousness of God in Christ" - just as you are - releases the power to change you.

I AM NOT ASHAMED OF THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST, FOR IT IS THE POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION FOR ALL WHO BELIEVE, FIRST THE JEW AND ALSO THE GREEK.

What is the power? The Gospel. Unto what? Righteousness. There's a rest, but not many find it.
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Old 08-14-2015, 05:47 PM
 
18,172 posts, read 16,395,091 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
In the garden of Gethsemane, Jesus prayed, “Father, I have finished the work which You have given Me to do.” How could He say that to His Father when He had not yet been crucified?

It was because He lived in the finished work—the realm of “done”. That’s the place of rest. And that’s where and how God wants you and I to live.

Christianity is not "DO", it's "DONE".

Long before man sinned, God already had the provision. The Bible tells us that Jesus was slain from the foundation of the world (Revelation 13:8). This means that everything you need accomplished in your life has been accomplished. Long before you see your healing, know that God has already finished the work of your healing. If you are in lack, see that all the work for your provision has been finished.

How do we live in the realm of “it is done?” Just look at Jesus. When He saw a man who was lame for 38 years, He said, “Rise, take up your bed and walk” (John 5:8). You don’t say that to the man unless you see the finished work.

Another time, Jesus saw a man in the synagogue whose arm was withered and said to him, “Stretch out your hand” (Matthew 12:13). Jesus treated the man who was lame like he had a pair of strong, healthy legs, and the man whose arm was withered like his arm was whole. He walked in the finished work.

The old covenant was demanding; the new covenant of His grace is supply.
Christs work was done. The work of Christians is not done until he ends this world.
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Old 08-14-2015, 06:07 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Here's part of the problem:

Mark records that Jesus said he came to die for "many" but not for "everyone". John however, has Jesus saying that God sent him to die for the whole world. John 3:16 A huge dichotomy.
Everyone makes up a pretty fair number, you might even say "many." "Many" does not EXclude, it merely indicates a great number. The dichotomy is only in your imagination.
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Old 08-14-2015, 06:23 PM
 
Location: On the brink of WWIII
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Here's part of the problem:

Mark records that Jesus said he came to die for "many" but not for "everyone". John however, has Jesus saying that God sent him to die for the whole world. John 3:16 A huge dichotomy.
The Jesus in Mark never claimed to be deity, hence in some instances his power and ability to do miracles was limited. Not so in the other gospels.
But John has Jesus claiming to be deity on every page. In fact Jesus couldn't open his mouth without making the claim he was God. Another huge dichotomy.
Additionally, Jesus stated that it was necessary to believe in him in order to escape hell/perishing
Mark never has Jesus claiming this. Yet another huge dichotomy.

And it only gets worse when Paul stirs the pot with his own theology of "faith alone" which is in direct opposition of Jesus' teaching of faith plus works. Now we have gigantic dichotomies all over the map. This is only part of why the New Testament is unreliable as Christian theology.
Are we espousing PREDETERMINATION as a plan?
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Old 08-14-2015, 08:40 PM
 
8,669 posts, read 4,806,857 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Here's part of the problem:

Mark records that Jesus said he came to die for "many" but not for "everyone". John however, has Jesus saying that God sent him to die for the whole world. John 3:16 A huge dichotomy.
The Jesus in Mark never claimed to be deity, hence in some instances his power and ability to do miracles was limited. Not so in the other gospels.
But John has Jesus claiming to be deity on every page. In fact Jesus couldn't open his mouth without making the claim he was God. Another huge dichotomy.
Additionally, Jesus stated that it was necessary to believe in him in order to escape hell/perishing
Mark never has Jesus claiming this. Yet another huge dichotomy.

And it only gets worse when Paul stirs the pot with his own theology of "faith alone" which is in direct opposition of Jesus' teaching of faith plus works. Now we have gigantic dichotomies all over the map. This is only part of why the New Testament is unreliable as Christian theology.
Matthew 21King James Version (KJV)

21 And when they drew nigh unto Jerusalem, and were come to Bethphage, unto the mount of Olives, then sent Jesus two disciples,
2 Saying unto them, Go into the village over against you, and straightway ye shall find an ass tied, and a colt with her: loose them, and bring them unto me.
3 And if any man say ought unto you, ye shall say, The Lord hath need of them; and straightway he will send them.
4 All this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying,
5 Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass.
6 And the disciples went, and did as Jesus commanded them,
7 And brought the ass, and the colt, and put on them their clothes, and they set him thereon.
8 And a very great multitude spread their garments in the way; others cut down branches from the trees, and strawed them in the way.
9 And the multitudes that went before, and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest.
10 And when he was come into Jerusalem, all the city was moved, saying, Who is this?
11 And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee.
12 And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,
13 And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.
14 And the blind and the lame came to him in the temple; and he healed them.
15 And when the chief priests and scribes saw the wonderful things that he did, and the children crying in the temple, and saying, Hosanna to the son of David; they were sore displeased,
16 And said unto him, Hearest thou what these say? And Jesus saith unto them, Yea; have ye never read, Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast perfected praise?
17 And he left them, and went out of the city into Bethany; and he lodged there.
18 Now in the morning as he returned into the city, he hungered.
19 And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.
20 And when the disciples saw it, they marvelled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away!
21 Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.
Matthew 24King James Version (KJV)

24 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:




Deuteronomy Chapter 28 דְּבָרִים

א וְהָיָה, אִם-שָׁמוֹעַ תִּשְׁמַע בְּקוֹל יְהוָה אֱלֹהֶיךָ, לִשְׁמֹר לַעֲשׂוֹת אֶת-כָּל-מִצְו*ֹתָיו, אֲשֶׁר אָנֹכִי מְצַוְּךָ הַיּוֹם--וּנְתָנְךָ יְהוָה אֱלֹהֶיךָ, עֶלְיוֹן, עַל, כָּל-גּוֹיֵי הָאָרֶץ. 1 And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all His commandments which I command thee this day, that the LORD thy God will set thee on high above all the nations of the earth. ב וּבָאוּ עָלֶיךָ כָּל-הַבְּרָכוֹת הָאֵלֶּה, וְהִשִּׂיגֻךָ: כִּי תִשְׁמַע, בְּקוֹל יְהוָה אֱלֹהֶיךָ. 2 And all these blessings shall come upon thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God. ג בָּרוּךְ אַתָּה, בָּעִיר; וּבָרוּךְ אַתָּה, בַּשָּׂדֶה. 3 Blessed shalt thou be in the city, and blessed shalt thou be in the field. ד בָּרוּךְ פְּרִי-בִטְנְךָ וּפְרִי אַדְמָתְךָ, וּפְרִי בְהֶמְתֶּךָ--שְׁגַר אֲלָפֶיךָ, וְעַשְׁתְּרוֹת צֹאנֶךָ. 4 Blessed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy land, and the fruit of thy cattle, the increase of thy kine, and the young of thy flock. ה בָּרוּךְ טַנְאֲךָ, וּמִשְׁאַרְתֶּךָ. 5 Blessed shall be thy basket and thy kneading-trough. ו בָּרוּךְ אַתָּה, בְּבֹאֶךָ; וּבָרוּךְ אַתָּה, בְּצֵאתֶךָ. 6 Blessed shalt thou be when thou comest in, and blessed shalt thou be when thou goest out.

Matthew 5King James Version (KJV)

5 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:
2 And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,
3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.






וְאָכַלְתָּ פְרִי-בִטְנְךָ, בְּשַׂר בָּנֶיךָ וּבְנֹתֶיךָ, אֲשֶׁר נָתַן-לְךָ, יְהוָה אֱלֹהֶיךָ--בְּמָצוֹר, וּבְמָצוֹק, אֲשֶׁר-יָצִיק לְךָ, אֹיְבֶךָ. 53 And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters whom the LORD thy God hath given thee; in the siege and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemies shall straiten thee. נד הָאִישׁ הָרַךְ בְּךָ, וְהֶעָנֹג מְאֹד--תֵּרַע עֵינוֹ בְאָחִיו וּבְאֵשֶׁת חֵיקוֹ, וּבְיֶתֶר בָּנָיו אֲשֶׁר יוֹתִיר. 54 The man that is tender among you, and very delicate, his eye shall be evil against his brother, and against the wife of his bosom, and against the remnant of his children whom he hath remaining; נה מִתֵּת לְאַחַד מֵהֶם, מִבְּשַׂר בָּנָיו אֲשֶׁר יֹאכֵל, מִבְּלִי הִשְׁאִיר-לוֹ, כֹּל--בְּמָצוֹר, וּבְמָצוֹק, אֲשֶׁר יָצִיק לְךָ אֹיִבְךָ, בְּכָל-שְׁעָרֶיךָ. 55 so that he will not give to any of them of the flesh of his children whom he shall eat, because he hath nothing left him; in the siege and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemy shall straiten thee in all thy gates. נו הָרַכָּה בְךָ וְהָעֲנֻגָּה, אֲשֶׁר לֹא-נִסְּתָה כַף-רַגְלָהּ הַצֵּג עַל-הָאָרֶץ, מֵהִתְעַנֵּג, וּמֵרֹךְ--תֵּרַע עֵינָהּ בְּאִישׁ חֵיקָהּ, וּבִבְנָהּ וּבְבִתָּהּ. 56 The tender and delicate woman among you, who would not adventure to set the sole of her foot upon the ground for delicateness and tenderness, her eye shall be evil against the husband of her bosom, and against her son, and against her daughter;
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Old 08-15-2015, 11:22 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,033,127 times
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Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
You're a Jew - I don't expect you to receive this - yet.
I don't like the way you say "Jew"...I am offended....


Being Jewish has nothing to do with reading comprehension...
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