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Well, let's see ...Romans 1 (penned by someone who was no more 'divine' than you or me) is speaking about idolatry and about those 'who had once known God' who had taken to worshiping images made in the likeness of mortal man, birds, animals and reptiles. How come you're not aware of this, jimmiej? Anyway, please ... read Romans 1 from beginning to end and get back to me to let me know where in that scripture Paul suddenly suddenly diverts from the idolatry theme to address 'homosexuality'. The 'religious' sexual dalliances that Paul refers to are the sexual rituals, fertility rites and such that were performed with temple prostitutes in pagan temples that were affiliated with ...idolatry. THIS is what Romans 1 is speaking of ...NOT homosexuality which, as I've oft repeated, WAS NOT KNOWN TO THE ANCIENT ONES!
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Originally Posted by jimmiej
Yeah, I’m familiar with that excuse. Considering Jesus echoed the Father’s words regarding marriage, I believe the issue is clear, Biblically speaking.
Can you read, Jimmie? If so, DO you actually read the scriptures that you have determined are twisted by pro-homosexual advocates, those who you refer to as 'making excuses' for homosexuality? Or, are you like so many professed Christians who simply regurgitate what they hear preached from the pulpit?
Here is Romans 1:18-27 King James Version:
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Paul is clearly speaking here of idolatry and references those (He refers to them as 'they') who once knew God but had now betrayed God and instead turned to worshiping man-made images. Can you not see this, Jimmie?
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Here Paul has not changed direction. He is still in the 'idol worship' mode where we can put two and two together (by using our God-given brains) and conclude that those who once knew God had now given themselves over fully to the pagan worship system, a system that included sexual rituals performed with temple prostitutes. We have to remember that Paul IS NOT talking to we of today but with the recipients of his letters who WOULD HAVE KNOWN what he was referring to. They, as did Paul, KNEW what was going on in the pagan temples. Those who once knew God (they/them) have been fully taken over (Paul uses the term 'God gave them up') by idolatry.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Yep, apparently the women were also involved in pagan idolatry according to that text. It seems that Paul really DID have a bee in his bonnet by the actions and the practices of those who had abandoned God and were more inclined to worship, and participate in sexual rituals, dedicated to the pagan idols. Why are you ignoring the obvious meaning behind these scriptures, Jimmie, and rather using them (or be in agreement with others who use them) to demean gay people?
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
More of this rant from Paul regarding those who were apparently suffering some form of 'the wrath of God' malady (we are not told what) derived from their shenanigans with temple prostitutes and the worshiping of birds, animals and creeping things. I tell ya, if one does not worship the one true God, nasty things will befall them.
You DO know what a homosexual is, don't you, Jimmie? As far as I know - correct me if I'm wrong - homosexuals don't worship idols and have affairs with prostitutes in pagan temples. They also don't gang up and demand sex from visitors to the area (Sodom). Where in the above scripture from Romans 1 do you see any reference to homosexual - OR heterosexual - intimacy? Answer: Nowhere!
As always ...I challenge you or anyone else to refute anything that I've had to say about Romans 1:18-27!
Gee, don't you think it is possible that there was more than ONE sin going on? Besides, you have to ignore Jude 1:17 which is CRYSTAL CLEAR that the sin was sexual perversion.
My "made up religion" is shared by millions of believers who can share countless testimonies of supernatural experiences with God. I am on the side of truth. You are not.
You don't even get your made up religion---and yes it is shared by countless others who are likewise on broad path to hell.
I think Jude 1:7 is the correct reference to what you referred. And it states sexual immorality. YOU are the one who fictionalized it to include homosexuals. In particular, it goes on to mention pursuing strange flesh, which indicates they were after ANGELS, although it is unclear how angels are made of flesh--showing the confusion of the author of Jude.
Jude’s comment about sarkos heteras (“other flesh”) is a reference to sex with angels not sex with other men. Verse 6 is likely an allusion to the sin of the angels in Genesis 6:1-4, which according to Jewish oral tradition, involved angels having sex with the daughters of men. So it is not far fetched to think that the “other flesh” in verse 7 is a reference to the men of Sodom trying to have sex with Lot’s angelic visitors.
Quote:
the view that Genesis 6:1-4 involves fallen angels mating with human females has a strong contextual, grammatical, and historical basis.
Virtually every time you post, you make up still another improbable scenario that is never researched to discover alternative possibilities.
You sound like that Pharisee Jesus warned us about:
Quote:
The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like the other men— swindlers, evildoers, adulterers— or even like this tax collector.
Luke 18:11
Your certainty is taking you straight to hell.
Christianity is not about going from gay to straight. It's about turning from sin to Jesus!
I've been called far worse by far better. Try harder. What exactly do you know about me (nothing)?
What do I know about you? Let me see; you've no sense of humor. You're intolerant, which makes you a bigot. You're overly-sensitive & you feel the need to whine about any little thing. You're probably a communist but deceive yourself enough to call yourself a socialist.
I know enough to see that you are a part of the agenda that's making this world a darker place, while pretending that you're the good guys.
What do I know about you? Let me see; you've no sense of humor. You're intolerant, which makes you a bigot. You're overly-sensitive & you feel the need to whine about any little thing. You're probably a communist but deceive yourself enough to call yourself a socialist.
I know enough to see that you are a part of the agenda that's making this world a darker place, while pretending that you're the good guys.
LOL. You've just proven yourself a fool. Well done.
Can you read, Jimmie? If so, DO you actually read the scriptures that you have determined are twisted by pro-homosexual advocates, those who you refer to as 'making excuses' for homosexuality? Or, are you like so many professed Christians who simply regurgitate what they hear preached from the pulpit?
Here is Romans 1:18-27 King James Version:
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Paul is clearly speaking here of idolatry and references those (He refers to them as 'they') who once knew God but had now betrayed God and instead turned to worshiping man-made images. Can you not see this, Jimmie?
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Here Paul has not changed direction. He is still in the 'idol worship' mode where we can put two and two together (by using our God-given brains) and conclude that those who once knew God had now given themselves over fully to the pagan worship system, a system that included sexual rituals performed with temple prostitutes. We have to remember that Paul IS NOT talking to we of today but with the recipients of his letters who WOULD HAVE KNOWN what he was referring to. They, as did Paul, KNEW what was going on in the pagan temples. Those who once knew God (they/them) have been fully taken over (Paul uses the term 'God gave them up') by idolatry.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Yep, apparently the women were also involved in pagan idolatry according to that text. It seems that Paul really DID have a bee in his bonnet by the actions and the practices of those who had abandoned God and were more inclined to worship, and participate in sexual rituals, dedicated to the pagan idols. Why are you ignoring the obvious meaning behind these scriptures, Jimmie, and rather using them (or be in agreement with others who use them) to demean gay people?
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
More of this rant from Paul regarding those who were apparently suffering some form of 'the wrath of God' malady (we are not told what) derived from their shenanigans with temple prostitutes and the worshiping of birds, animals and creeping things. I tell ya, if one does not worship the one true God, nasty things will befall them.
You DO know what a homosexual is, don't you, Jimmie? As far as I know - correct me if I'm wrong - homosexuals don't worship idols and have affairs with prostitutes in pagan temples. They also don't gang up and demand sex from visitors to the area (Sodom). Where in the above scripture from Romans 1 do you see any reference to homosexual - OR heterosexual - intimacy? Answer: Nowhere!
As always ...I challenge you or anyone else to refute anything that I've had to say about Romans 1:18-27!
And yet, God defined marriage in Gen. 2 and Jesus reiterated it in His discussion about divorce.
What do I know about you? Let me see; you've no sense of humor. You're intolerant, which makes you a bigot. You're overly-sensitive & you feel the need to whine about any little thing. You're probably a communist but deceive yourself enough to call yourself a socialist.
I know enough to see that you are a part of the agenda that's making this world a darker place, while pretending that you're the good guys.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude
LOL. You've just proven yourself a fool. Well done.
LOL. You've just proven yourself a fool. Well done.
Worth repeating.
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