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Howdy neighbors. *Sigh* ...I'm at a loss as to why the church leadership within mainstream Christianity still persists in preaching to its flock that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of the 'grave sin' of homosexuality. Years ago I participated in a church Bible study on the subject of S&G. We were advised by the leader of the group study to clear our minds of any preconceived notions that we might have pertaining to their destruction, i.e. the popular teaching that they were destroyed because of rampant homosexuality. And, I'm sure glad that we did go into this study with an open mind. We found nothing to indicate that the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah were homosexual ...NOTHING! But, this left us to wondering how others had somehow read and continued to read such a falsehood into the story of S&G. "Others" involves scholars of theology and includes many well-known personalities today such as Michael Brown and James White ...both of whom possess theological doctorates as well as their having several anti-gay presentations on YouTube in which, I believe, S&G are referenced.
Ezekiel gives us the actual reason/s why Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed (Ezekiel 16:49-50) and NOWHERE mentions homosexuality. Jesus (Matthew 10:14-15) equates the lack of hospitality to strangers with the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah. Again, no mention of homosexuality. And, as already mentioned, there is no mention of homosexuality anywhere in the ACTUAL account in Genesis.
So, where does this falsehood come from and why do preachers persist in preaching the glaring lie to their congregation that S&G were destroyed because of homosexuality? I'll quickly mention that the intended rape of the angels visiting Lot by the inhabitants of Sodom has nothing to do with God's plan to destroy the cities. This is not to mention, of course, that Gomorrah had nothing to do with this part of the story but was also destroyed.
Out of everything in the Bible used against homosexuality, the story of Sodom and Gomorrah is the most distorted yet it continues to be used as one of the primary passages. Even if homosexuality was involved, what we see in the story in Genesis is gang rape and is evil whether or not its homosexual or heterosexual. Gay marriage among consenting adults cannot be compared to it, yet evangelicals continue to cling to that story as one of their primary weapons against gays. You have pastors and politicians saying God is going to completely destroy America by fire from top to bottom and coast to coast because of gay marriage. Where do they get that idea? From their distorted version of the story of Sodom and Gomorrah.
If fits their political agenda though. They can use the story as a basis for why they must oppose gay rights; to prevent God from destroying America because the story is proof that God hates gay people more than other sinners. It also allows them to scapegoat the LGBT community whenever anything bad happens to America.
Last edited by bawac34618; 09-08-2015 at 10:57 PM..
Romulus, hi.. What is your interpretation of Genesis 19:4-5 (?)
peace.
Well, let's see. This is from the KJV:
Genesis 19:4-5
4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:
5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
I'm willing to concede that the men of the city had ill intentions toward the visitors unlike some others who use the term 'may know them' to imply that the men of the city merely wished to interrogate them. However, we need to look at this through the eyes of logic (something many 'fundies', it seems, are incapable of doing) and conclude that the men of Sodom were predominantly heterosexuals who were after more than lustful sex! As long as the mob included young men then it would be reasonable to derive that these young men were the result of a sexual union between the males and the females of the city, i.e. heterosexuals.
The text of the story tells us that “the men of Sodom, both young and old, all the people to the last man†(vs. 4) gathered at Lot’s door and demanded that his guests be brought out to them. This language is important because it makes clear that the group at Lot’s door was comprised of either all the people of the city (men and women) or, at a minimum, all the males of the city, both boys and men. This is a telling fact.
If the Scripture text had told us that “certain men of Sodom†or even “many men of Sodom†gathered at the door, we might then surmise that the men at the door could have been motivated by homosexual desire. But the text says “both young and old, all the people to the last man†gathered at the door. To suggest that every man and boy in Sodom was homosexual is simply not credible. Any reasonable interpretation of the story must account for the fact that all the males of Sodom (both homosexual and heterosexual), and perhaps even the women, participated in this attack. Something other than homosexual desire seems to have been at work here. Would you agree?
Okay, since I want to encourage debate that will do it for now. I will also mention that I've incorporated script into my dialog from the below site:
Note: AS mentioned in my OP, the story we're focusing on right now had nothing to do with God's plan to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah. NOR did this story have anything to do with Gomorrah, also destroyed.
No, there is not. No chance when people have an agenda to ostracise some people.
Then efforts must be made to expose this agenda, perhaps through forums such as this one. However, I do agree with your premise that those with ingrained ill intent will not, unfortunately, be swayed to change even when facts are waved in front of their face.
I think this is a legitimate question no matter what side of the fence you are on regarding homosexual relationships.
The narrative from the religious right of the Republican Party is that Genesis 19 proves that God hates homosexuality so much that he would completely destroy any society that tolerates it. Therefore, to save America we must criminalize it and drive them back into the closet as to restore God's blessing on our country. If we do not, its just a matter of time before an angry God wipes America off the face of the planet. Most conservative evangelicals believe that narrative or some version of it but is it even Biblical? What in Genesis 19 looks anything like the consensual homosexual relationships we know today? Ezekiel 16 spells out clearly what the sins of Sodom were yet fundamentalists downplay it and some actually get angry if you quote it.
For those who believe homosexuality is sin, there is still Leviticus 18 and Romans 1. What a correct interpretation of Genesis 19 does is destroy the fundie religious right's narrative that opposition to gay rights is necessary for America's survival or that homosexuality is worse in the eyes of God than other sins.
The cities were destroyed for their Many sins, not just one. Homosexuality was the sin in question because when the angels went into the city the men wanted to "know" them. In bible language that means have sex with them. They demanded the angels, who came as men, be sent out and also when Lot said he would send his daughters out they didn't want them, only the men. That was another indicator of sex with the men.
But the cities were awash in sin not just one sin.
The entire story of Sodom is strange, don'tcha think? I mean, when was the last time you saw a woman turned into a pillar of salt?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948
...so you think maybe the guys that accosted the Angels ...
No one accosted the angels. It was reported to have been no more than intent. Okay?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948
...just wanted a good game of chess?
I would hazard an educated guess that they (the people of Sodom) wanted to greet the visitors in their usual "Visitor Welcome Wagon" manner and "demasculinize" them by raping them. This is implied at the beginning of the story where Lot tells the visitors not to spend the night in the town square. While the act of rape in this case might be homosexual in nature the intent is power and intimidation, same as heterosexual rape.
But, they may have had chess on their minds, who knows?
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