God Breaks His Promise to Israel (Torah, Tanakh, Jehovah, hell)
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But I will encamp at my temple to guard it against marauding forces. Never again will an oppressor overrun my people, for now I am keeping watch.
This is God talking to Zechariah circa 550 BC during the Babylonian captivity. God makes an ironclad promise to Israel that after their captivity is over God will never allow another nation to oppress Israel. You can see it in black and white.
500 years later circa 50 BC Israel is overrun by the Roman empire. In a nutshell, God promises and God doesn't keep His promise.
Is anyone reading this verse differently than I am?
We know God doesn't lie, and we know God is not slack in keeping His promises. That leaves just one other alternative. You are not understanding the passage correctly.
Here's what I think about the passage. I'm hoping someone else will weigh in with their thoughts.
Alexander the Great was about to overpower the Medo-Persian power. This prophecy assured God's people that world changes would not destroy them.
Jehovah would encamp about his people and through them fulfil his purpose. No more would such nations pass through to thwart his purpose; it would be fulfilled in the Messiah.
An immediate fulfillment of this promise occurred when Alexander spared Jerusalem and gave the Jews special favors.
I appreciate your taking this thorny question on, Katie. Alexander the Great did not appear on the scene until two hundred years later in 326 BC. So the question would be why God would protect them from the Greeks and not the Romans.
The issue of world affairs not destroying them also is problematic because the Romans did destroy Israel in 70 AD. While some Jews stayed in the area and a few revolts occurred from time to time, gradually Israel depopulated of Jews and the Great Diaspora was in full swing by 350 CE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28
OR man wrote it and MAN got it wrong.
Well, that's what I'm inclined to believe, zthatz, although you couldn't get a dye-in-the-wool Christian to admit that. Whoever wrote this verse certainly put God's head in a noose, didn't he?
Last edited by thrillobyte; 09-26-2015 at 06:41 PM..
This is God talking to Zechariah circa 550 BC during the Babylonian captivity. God makes an ironclad promise to Israel that after their captivity is over God will never allow another nation to oppress Israel. You can see it in black and white.
500 years later circa 50 BC Israel is overrun by the Roman empire. In a nutshell, God promises and God doesn't keep His promise.
Is anyone reading this verse differently than I am?
Zechariah 9:
8And I will encamp beside My house against a garrison of those passing by and of those returning. And no oppressor shall pass by them, for now I have seen with My eyes. - Zechariah - Chapter 9 - Tanakh Online - Torah - Bible
Where does it state that G-d will NEVER allow it?...
8And I will encamp beside My house against a garrison of those passing by and of those returning. And no oppressor shall pass by them, for now I have seen with My eyes. - Zechariah - Chapter 9 - Tanakh Online - Torah - Bible
Where does it state that G-d will NEVER allow it?...
I guess the phrase, "Lost in Translation" is applicable here, right Richard?
But have a look:
Quote:
New International Version
But I will encamp at my temple to guard it against marauding forces. Never again will an oppressor overrun my people, for now I am keeping watch.
New Living Translation
I will guard my Temple and protect it from invading armies. I am watching closely to ensure that no more foreign oppressors overrun my people's land.
English Standard Version
Then I will encamp at my house as a guard, so that none shall march to and fro; no oppressor shall again march over them, for now I see with my own eyes.
New American Standard Bible
But I will camp around My house because of an army, Because of him who passes by and returns; And no oppressor will pass over them anymore, For now I have seen with My eyes.
King James Bible
And I will encamp about mine house because of the army, because of him that passeth by, and because of him that returneth: and no oppressor shall pass through them any more: for now have I seen with mine eyes.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
I will set up camp at My house against an army, against those who march back and forth, and no oppressor will march against them again, for now I have seen with My own eyes.
International Standard Version
I will set a garrison around my Temple, to hinder those who might come and go, and to guard against oppressors who intend to invade; for I have taken note of this with my eyes."
All translations at Biblehub, except for yours, has the enemy passing over and through, not by.
This is God talking to Zechariah circa 550 BC during the Babylonian captivity. God makes an ironclad promise to Israel that after their captivity is over God will never allow another nation to oppress Israel. You can see it in black and white.
500 years later circa 50 BC Israel is overrun by the Roman empire. In a nutshell, God promises and God doesn't keep His promise.
Is anyone reading this verse differently than I am?
They were no longer his people.
Matthew 21:43 43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Matthew 23:38 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate
I appreciate your taking this thorny question on, Katie. Alexander the Great did not appear on the scene until two hundred years later in 326 BC. So the question would be why God would protect them from the Greeks and not the Romans.
The issue of world affairs not destroying them also is problematic because the Romans did destroy Israel in 70 AD. While some Jews stayed in the area and a few revolts occurred from time to time, gradually Israel depopulated of Jews and the Great Diaspora was in full swing by 350 CE.
Well, that's what I'm inclined to believe, zthatz, although you couldn't get a dye-in-the-wool Christian to admit that. Whoever wrote this verse certainly put God's head in a noose, didn't he?
Modern evangelical fundies have created a NEW way to interpret and read ancient prophecies...
They claim there is a MINOR and MAJOR fulfillment of prophecy. So when it appears the prophecy has PASSED or been applied THOUSANDS or even hundreds of years ago, that is because the prophecy has TWO STAGES and it SHALL COME TO PASS YET AGAIN in our modern world...ROFLMA..
I have yet to find the chapter and verse that explains this TWO-FOLD prophecy. I also believe there is a THREE and possibly FOUR STAGE prophecy that will explain the prophecy the EF await, will manifest itself in yet another application when the first TWO have failed to adequately explain why it really didn't happen the way 99% of us mere mortals understood it to have happened...
Matthew 21:43 43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Matthew 23:38 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate
Fail again, expat. Matthew was written over 100 years after the Romans took over Israel and the Romans conquered Israel a full 80 years before Jesus said those words so God hadn't "divorced" them yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28
Modern evangelical fundies have created a NEW way to interpret and read ancient prophecies...
They claim there is a MINOR and MAJOR fulfillment of prophecy. So when it appears the prophecy has PASSED or been applied THOUSANDS or even hundreds of years ago, that is because the prophecy has TWO STAGES and it SHALL COME TO PASS YET AGAIN in our modern world...ROFLMA..
I have yet to find the chapter and verse that explains this TWO-FOLD prophecy. I also believe there is a THREE and possibly FOUR STAGE prophecy that will explain the prophecy the EF await, will manifest itself in yet another application when the first TWO have failed to adequately explain why it really didn't happen the way 99% of us mere mortals understood it to have happened...
I suppose Christian apologists can make prophecies as many "folds" as they like, one for each time a skeptic points out to them where their apology fails.
I guess the phrase, "Lost in Translation" is applicable here, right Richard?
But have a look:
All translations at Biblehub, except for yours, has the enemy passing over and through, not by.
The verdict is 99.9% in. God fails.
Well, since the original Scriptures are the Seferim Torah and not all those English translations...Let me look in my Stone Edition TaNaKh...
Zechariah 9:8
Stone Edition TaNaKh
The Torah / Prophets / Writings
Newly translated and annotated
I will encamp at My home [to protect it] against any army and from any [enemy] who comes and goes and an oppressor will never again pass through them; For now I have seen [their suffering] with My eyes.
But, it does go on to speak of the future Messiah that will come and this is when this will take place...
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