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If you don't believe in either heaven or hell or have another viewpoint, I'd like to hear about that too.
I actually believe in both, but my beliefs about them are pretty different from those taught by traditional Christianity. If I were to go into any amount of detail at all about my beliefs, my post would be longer than the forum rules permit. So suffice it to say (unless you are curious and would like to know more), I believe that almost everyone who has ever lived will end up going to Heaven. That doesn't mean I believe all will receive the same reward in Heaven. Jesus said that He would reward every man according to his works, and I believe that the greater the works, the greater the reward.
In terms of Hell, I see it in two different respects. I believe that no one goes immediately to either Heaven or Hell immediately upon death, but awaits the resurrection in a temporary realm or state known in my religion as "the Spirit World." The spirit world, according to Mormon theology, is divided into Paradise (a place of peace and rest for the righteous) and Prison (a hell-like state where the wicked are tormented by guilt for their wickedness). Our teaching is that repentance is possible, though, even after death, and those in prison can join those in paradise through sincere repentance and acceptance of Jesus Christ as the means by which the gift of redemption is given.
We believe that nothing would please God more than for every single one of His children to ultimately accept His Son's sacrifice on their part, and will do everything He can -- except exerting force -- to get them to do so. Our belief is that, by the time we all stand before Him to be judged (i.e. at the time we are resurrected), all but a very tiny number will have come to realize that Jesus Christ is their Savior and will be permitted at least some degree of the Father's glory in His kingdom.
To me, there is no hell. Those with salvation will be rewarded with eternal life in paradise. Those who who do not believe, simply die. And that's it. It's over. Void. Nothing. Their hell is no reward of eternal life. But they don't know it. Because there is nothing. Just an end.
So there is a heaven. But the only hell is no salvation. There is no eternal punishment. No everlasting fires of hell. But no conscience understanding or feeling of pain or dread.
A few questions for Christians only, starting with a poll to get going. Thanks.
A few things I'm curious about:
I get the impression that there are a growing number of Christians who no longer believe in the idea of hell but still believe in heaven. I'm happy to accept I might wrong about that, but it's just the impression I get from people on this forum.
If it is the case, that you believe in heaven but not hell, I'd like to understand what your justification would be for that? Because didn't Jesus himself believe in the idea of hell?
Also I'd like to understand - if you do still believe in heaven, what form does that take?
I ask because I saw an atheist derided on here once for thinking that Christians believe heaven is 'in the clouds'. I'm really not being facetious here, just that when I read that, that's genuinely what I also thought was the case - that Christians believe that the 'heavens' are somehow in the sky. So if not in the sky, then where?
If you don't believe in either heaven or hell or have another viewpoint, I'd like to hear about that too.
I hope people know me well enough to know I'm not here to make fun, I just want to better understand what Christians current perceptions of these issues are.
Thanks.
Jesus did not say he sometimes spoke the truth or left the truth up to what the person to determine. Everything Jesus said is the truth.
Jesus spoke of both places being factual and as a final destination depending on if one believes or reject him after one's physical death.
Jesus also spoke of a final judgement where
all the dead will be raised
the living at that time will be joined with them
and all people are gathered together and will be divided into two groups. The dividing of peoples will be based on the correct faith or the lack of faith.
Jesus spoke of the people experiences of\in the two in opposite terms ... as good as heaven will be for those , hell will be just the opposite. The one commonality between them is the permanency of the locations of people once judged by God.
A few questions for Christians only, starting with a poll to get going. Thanks.
A few things I'm curious about:
I get the impression that there are a growing number of Christians who no longer believe in the idea of hell but still believe in heaven. I'm happy to accept I might wrong about that, but it's just the impression I get from people on this forum.
If it is the case, that you believe in heaven but not hell, I'd like to understand what your justification would be for that? Because didn't Jesus himself believe in the idea of hell?
Also I'd like to understand - if you do still believe in heaven, what form does that take?
I ask because I saw an atheist derided on here once for thinking that Christians believe heaven is 'in the clouds'. I'm really not being facetious here, just that when I read that, that's genuinely what I also thought was the case - that Christians believe that the 'heavens' are somehow in the sky. So if not in the sky, then where?
If you don't believe in either heaven or hell or have another viewpoint, I'd like to hear about that too.
I hope people know me well enough to know I'm not here to make fun, I just want to better understand what Christians current perceptions of these issues are.
Thanks.
There are millions of Christians who do not believe in hell based on what the Bible teaches and what Jesus believed
To start with the Bible explains the condition of the dead. There is no immortal soul that survives death thus nothing to torment eternally in hell fire.
Genesis 3:19, "for dust you are and dust you will return."
Ecclesiastes 3:19, "for there is an outcome for humans and an outcome for animals; they all have the same outcome. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit. So man has no superiority over animals, for everything is futile."
Ecclesiastes 9:5, "For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten.
Ancient Jews unlike their contemporary counterparts believed the rich, poor, famous, infamous, righteous and wicked all ended up in the same "abode" "state" or "place" at death.
Jesus was a Jew and his thoughts would be in line with the thoughts of Jews in general as above. His thoughts about death are found in John 11:11 with the resurrection of Lazarus. He described death like sleep (not literally sleep but like sleep). Compare Matthew 9:24.
So what about Mark 9:47:48 doesn't it teach hell fire? Let's look at a typical Bible translation"
KJV, "And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."
However, other Bible translations that use the word "hell" as a footnote include "Gehenna" which was the original word used in the early Koine Greek copies of the Bible. Why is that important? Jesus's audience was Jewish and they understood what Gehenna meant. Gehenna was a literal garbage dump of Jerusalem in which everything was incinerated by constant fires. It also had a more sinister reminder to those very same Jews that because of their ancestors burning people alive God abandoned them. God said having people burn in fire didn't even enter his heart..see Jeremiah 7:31.
By the way, I am a Jehovah's Witness and contrary to the misleading amount of info on the internet we aren't robotically told to avoid any literature from other sources. For example take note of the below:
Hence John in Revelation 20:14 calls the "lake of fire" the second death.
The Bible teaches that many who have died will be resurrected. However some will stay dead.
As far as heaven...
Jesus himself said God is a spirit (John 4:24)
1 kings 8:27 states that the heavens themselves cant contain God
Daniel 7:9-11 indicates many angels reside there alongside God.
Thus Heaven is the spirit realm where God and the angels reside. It isn't among the stars or planets or sky because spirit creatures do not have a physical form and certainly no astronomer that I am aware of has caught a glimpse of a cherub or two.
I don't know how any one can say they are a christian, yet put their own judgments conflicting with the things Jesus said .
I believe IN Jesus Christ, and all that he taught, and all the Holy Spirit teaches, Jesus designated to teach in his place.
Jesus said hell is real and heaven is real , what's to discuss ?
If you conflict with Jesus at all, your not a Christian at all.
I've had a bunch of experiences. Remember OJs driver said that night he had picked him up and OJ was complaining that it was really hot. And it wasn't, it was a mild night.
I don't know how any one can say they are a christian, yet put their own judgments conflicting with the things Jesus said .
I believe IN Jesus Christ, and all that he taught, and all the Holy Spirit teaches, Jesus designated to teach in his place.
Jesus said hell is real and heaven is real , what's to discuss ?
If you conflict with Jesus at all, your not a Christian at all.
Jesus spoke and taught in parables. Most people of that time were not educated and therefore understood stories and examples better than complicated doctrine. So we are left to occasionally interpret what Jesus meant. You interpret it your way, and I'll interpret it my way. Who's to say which is right? I guess we'll find out in due time.
Here's the good news........just follow Christ as he asked us and whether it exists or not will be a moot point!
Since when did believing in universalism make you a christian ?. many in the world you believe are hell bound believe in heaven and hell(and hope to avoid hell)...... does that make them a christian ?.
Hi everyone, OP here.
Just jumping in to say I'm reading all the posts with interest and learning a lot.
I don't have the time to respond to individual posts just now, but I'll get back here in a couple of days.
Thanks!
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Precisely, concise and to the point.
