1 Corinthians 1:18-25 - The Gospel Is Foolishness... Or It Is Power (spiritual, Biblical)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Pleroo, I know that you know scripture points to Jesus as the sacrificial Lamb. You can deny it all you want publicly, but you know it's there.
However, you have convinced yourself that it's not loving. Like others here, your theology is out of balance. God is 100% love. God is 100% holy.
Jimmie... sure, some passages in the bible that use the word sacrifice ... but you take a step beyond that to say the the sacrifice was required for God to be able to forgive. That is what I take issue with.
None of them say that God needed a blood sacrifice in order to be able to forgive. The closest you can come is the Hebrews passage. But since such a notion is in direct opposition to the very nature of love - and therefore of God - then it doesn't fly. You may not agree for whatever reason, but surely you can understand how others would come to that conclusion?
Romans 5:6-9 - For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
Romans 5:6-9 - For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
Why do you believe that is true?
(And I REALLY hope you have more than "because it's in the bible, so it must be true.")
Romans 5:6-9 - For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
Okay, DRob ... maybe the person who penned that verse still believed in the blood-thirsty, vengeful God portrayed in the OT (or maybe they just knew that their audience did). And maybe, like you, they tried to find a way to make the idea of God needing to witness a brutal blood sacrifice to appease God's wrath seem loving. But saying it is, doesn't make it so.
(And I REALLY hope you have more than "because it's in the bible, so it must be true.")
That is a great question. WHY would one believe that anyone needs saving from a God who is love? And WHAT is loving about the idea that one needs see someone punished for sin before they can forgive them? That's not love ... it's vengeance.
Wanting to see someone be transformed and no longer living out of harmony with self, others and God ... yes, that is loving. Needing to see someone punished to satisfy God's own angst about the sin of others? There is NOTHING loving about that because it is a purely selfish motive, and there is nothing selfish in divine love.
(And I REALLY hope you have more than "because it's in the bible, so it must be true.")
When I was a kid, and Mom or Dad told me something, I would believe it because they were just Mom and Dad - I would just trust them because of who they were, and what they did.
When I was a kid, and Mom or Dad told me something, I would believe it because they were just Mom and Dad - I would just trust them because of who they were, and what they did.
The same goes for the Father in heaven.
You believe the bible when you think it says that God required a blood sacrifice in order to be able to forgive and to satisfy God's wrath and "holiness" -- essentially for God to not feel out of sorts anymore. But you don't believe the bible when it says that God IS love, and then describes love as not keeping a record of wrongs and and not having selfish motives.
Okay, DRob ... maybe the person who penned that verse still believed in the blood-thirsty, vengeful God portrayed in the OT (or maybe they just knew that their audience did). And maybe, like you, they tried to find a way to make the idea of God needing to witness a brutal blood sacrifice to appease God's wrath seem loving. But saying it is, doesn't make it so.
So says you...
We don't see blood as it is anyone's blood. What matters is WHOSE blood it is... and how much He meant to God... and how God uses His blood on my behalf.
You can argue all day about what you don't like. But if it's true, then it doesn't matter what you or I think. It would be to your benefit to line up with the truth.
We don't see blood as it is anyone's blood. What matters is WHOSE blood it is... and how much He meant to God.
You can argue all day about what you don't like. But if it's true, then it doesn't matter what you or I think. It would be to your benefit to line up with the truth.
Love encompasses truth, DRob. And love absolutely precludes a need/desire to see ANYONE suffer for anything in order to be able to forgive them.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
