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As a thinking deist, this is one of several questions that pop into my mind that I cannot think of a logical answer to:
Jesus in his pre-incarnate form dictated the Old Testament to its writers. What Jesus inspired writers to write about hell was encapsulated in the doctrine on Sheol: Job wanted to be hid there; David made his bed there; Jonah prayed to God from there and was delivered; many others that indicated "hell" was a gloomy misty, nondescript place without fire or pain that both the good and the bad went to for not more than 12 years, I believe it was, and then they were released to heaven.
Jesus then incarnates and changes everything he said about hell in the Old Testament: that hell is a place of excruciating pain; that it is eternal; that only the wicked go there; that they keep company with the wicked angels who it was made for.
Why would Jesus say it is one thing in the Old Testament and then say it is something entirely different in the New Testament? Wouldn't Jesus have to keep some consistency in what he is saying from age to age? Or was it just a grave in the Old Testament and then it morphed into this horrible punishment for nonbelievers after his crucifixion?
As a thinking deist, this is one of several questions that pop into my mind that I cannot think of a logical answer to:
Jesus in his pre-incarnate form dictated the Old Testament to its writers. What Jesus inspired writers to write about hell was encapsulated in the doctrine on Sheol: Job wanted to be hid there; David made his bed there; Jonah prayed to God from there and was delivered; many others that indicated "hell" was a gloomy misty, nondescript place without fire or pain that both the good and the bad went to for not more than 12 years, I believe it was, and then they were released to heaven.
Jesus then incarnates and changes everything he said about hell in the Old Testament: that hell is a place of excruciating pain; that it is eternal; that only the wicked go there; that they keep company with the wicked angels who it was made for.
Why would Jesus say it is one thing in the Old Testament and then say it is something entirely different in the New Testament? Wouldn't Jesus have to keep some consistency in what he is saying from age to age? Or was it just a grave in the Old Testament and then it morphed into this horrible punishment for nonbelievers after his crucifixion?
Obviously, Jesus wasn't grown to full godhood until JUST before his dad planted his seed in Mary. Or maybe not 'til he was born in the manger. Maybe not 'til he was 12, even, and started the temple-preaching thing. Or 30, when folks started talking about him a little more.
Anyway, obviously his dad, being chief god at the time, dictated the OT. And then Jesus dictated the NT.
Discrepancies, of course, can be blamed on the generation gap.
Obviously, Jesus wasn't grown to full godhood until JUST before his dad planted his seed in Mary. Or maybe not 'til he was born in the manger. Maybe not 'til he was 12, even, and started the temple-preaching thing. Or 30, when folks started talking about him a little more.
Anyway, obviously his dad, being chief god at the time, dictated the OT. And then Jesus dictated the NT.
Discrepancies, of course, can be blamed on the generation gap.
You're very welcome.
Lotsa good stuff in there, Trout. But if I recall correctly the fundamentalists say that Jesus was the Word and the Word was God and "ALL" things were created through the Word. That would include creating the Old Testament, wouldn't it?
That is the likeliest scenario, but then the question becomes "Why did God allow His "infallible" word to be made "fallible" by man? Shouldn't He have stepped in and prevented it? Because God didn't we're all getting the wrong info---man's info and because we're getting all the wrong info millions of Christians are dropping out of Christianity over this fallible teaching on hell and God stands by and does nothing to stop it.
I have never seen any NT references to Sheol as a place of torment. Could you provide examples?
You misunderstood me. Jesus only spoke of Sheol in his pre-incarnate form as the Word (Adam to 0 AD) After he was born he never mentioned Sheol again, instead calling it hell, Gehenna, outer darkness, etc.
You misunderstood me. Jesus only spoke of Sheol in his pre-incarnate form as the Word (Adam to 0 AD) After he was born he never mentioned Sheol again, instead calling it hell, Gehenna, outer darkness, etc.
How do you conclude he is referencing the exact same place? Perhaps he would have called it by the same name if he were.
Well, you're closer to being right at this point than you were earlier on.
Yes, which led me to ask the question in post #5: why did God allow it?
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