Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
A1: I'm sure somewhere there is ... probably though not Christian.
A2: absolutely, babies need a savior.
Jesus taught original sin just as it was taught in the OT.
"Flesh gives birth to flesh" John 3:6 "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me." Psalm 51:5
As it is written: “There is no one righteous, notevenone;" Romans 3:10
-------------------------------------------
Jesus taught:
"but the Spirit gives birth to spirit." John 3:6
"Therefore go and makedisciplesof all nations,baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit," Matthew 28:19
babies are no less a part of "all nations"
------------------------------------------------------
God taught infants do believe and that baptism saves and how it does:
"From birth I was cast on you; from my mother’s womb you have been my God." Psalm 22:10
"this water (the water that saved Noah) symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—
not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ" 1 Peter 3:21
well put. that's basically the Catholic and Orthodox position on why infant baptism is necessary and proper. OTOH, confirmation (in the Catholic Church) is an opportunity for those baptized as children to confirm that faith as rational "adults" and of their own free will. the "eastern" Church generally administers baptism and confirmation (call chrismation) at the same time.
Was Mass celebrated at these weddings? Did your sister receive permission from the Bishop? (That's how it used to work. A higher-up had to give the OK for a priest to marry a Catholic and a non-Catholic.) One more: Did they promise to raise any children as Catholics? (Which was another "thing" that had to be agreed to.)
The Bishop was not asked. There was not a Mass celebrated. It was just a wedding ceremony. And there was no promise to raise the children in the RCC.
Thinking about it.... you are correct. I had a slight brain glitch there. Thanks for expounding on that.
FWIW, think what usually happens at the Vigil is that after the newly baptized/converted have made their public professions of faith and have been received into the Church, the rest of the congregation have an opportunity to "renew" their baptismal vows including the renunciation of Satan and "all his works and all his empty promises" and the (re)affirmation of their faith expressed in a point by point acceptance of the contents of the "Apostles Creed"---everybody gets into the act and publically "stands up for Jesus"!!!
If you convert to Catholicism.... you are then baptized as a Catholic. It doesn't matter if you have been previously baptized as something else. Or never been baptized. For marriage in the Catholic church....both have to be Catholics.
If a Christian who was baptised in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit converts to Catholicism, they generally don't have to be baptised again if they can provide proof of that baptism.
Quote:
For those who were baptized but who have never been instructed in the Christian faith or lived as Christians, it is appropriate for them to receive much of the same instruction in the faith as catechumens, but they are still not catechumens and are not to be referred to as such (NSC 3). As a result, they are not to participate in the rites intended for catechumens, such as the scrutinies. Even "[t]he rites of presentation of the creed, the Lord’s Prayer, and the book of the Gospels are not proper except for those who have received no Christian instruction and formation" (NSC 31).
For those who have been instructed in the Christian faith and have lived as Christians, the situation is different. The U.S. Conference of Bishops states, "Those baptized persons who have lived as Christians and need only instruction in the Catholic tradition and a degree of probation within the Catholic community should not be asked to undergo a full program parallel to the catechumenate" (NSC 31). For this reason, they should not share in the same, full RCIA programs that catechumens do.
I converted to Catholicism via RCIA. I was baptised as an infant in the Presbyterian church. I had the baptismal certificate and I presented it and that was all I needed. I was not baptised again as a Catholic. Neither were any of my children, who had been baptised as babies as well in the Presbyterian church.
To get married in the Catholic church, both people do not have to be Catholic. They do, however, generally both have to be baptised Christians. Permission from the bishop is required.
A Catholic may be able to receive a special dispensation from a bishop in order to marry a non Christian, non baptised person.
After RCIA the convert is baptized as a Catholic. Which is traditionally done during the Easter Vigil.
If they have been validly baptised before in the Christian faith, in the name of the Trinity (as opposed, to, for instance, a Mormon baptism) and they can provide evidence of this baptism, they generally do not have to be baptised again.
"One faith and one baptism." They are considered to already be baptised Christians.
Last edited by KathrynAragon; 01-21-2016 at 05:00 PM..
Wow...two consecutive posts to tell me I'm wrong after I acknowledged I was wrong.
A new personal record! **takes bow**
Thanks.
I hadn't read the entire thread when I responded. Sue me.
I read your post acknowledging you were wrong after I researched and provided links. Other people are reading this thread and may find the information I that provided links to, to be helpful, which is why I left the posts up. It's not just about you.
Wow...two consecutive posts to tell me I'm wrong after I acknowledged I was wrong.
A new personal record! **takes bow**
Please note that in my responses to your misinformation, I also didn't "make it personal" or get sarcastic or snarky with you. That is because I wasn't as interested in "correcting you" as I was simply providing correct information to others. Wrap your head around that one.
In fact, I didn't even notice at first that you were the poster who was providing inaccurate information.
Last edited by KathrynAragon; 01-21-2016 at 05:13 PM..
Some of you are confusing marriage and conversion.
The RCC does not require both partners to be confirmed Catholics in order to marry. I have seen many interdenominational marriages performed in Catholic Churches by a Catholic priest. My Catholic sister married a Baptist in our home parish church by our priest. She remains Catholic and he remains Baptist. They attend 2 services every week.
Now, if a person outside of the Catholic Church decideds to convert, then they will be confirmed through the process of RCIA (Rite of Christian Iniciation for Adults.) Usually, the RCC will accept any Christian baptism to enter the program. However, if a person was never baptised, they will hold a private baptism at the beginning of the program. Usually a sprinkling of holy water will do the trick.
The only possible reason one could suggest it should be done LEGALLY is that the baptismal certificate could be accepted as a means of identification, similar to a birth certificate. It's typically something most people don't lie about. Of course, that was something I had heard 20 years ago...and times have changed, so it may not be a valid point anymore.
.
There is probably less of that now, but in poor, rural areas babies were often born at home in the past and no birth certificate was issued. Therefore, a baptismal certificate was accepted as ID.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
FWIW, think what usually happens at the Vigil is that after the newly baptized/converted have made their public professions of faith and have been received into the Church, the rest of the congregation have an opportunity to "renew" their baptismal vows including the renunciation of Satan and "all his works and all his empty promises" and the (re)affirmation of their faith expressed in a point by point acceptance of the contents of the "Apostles Creed"---everybody gets into the act and publically "stands up for Jesus"!!!
