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Jesus death was a offense against God , as an innocent man murdered by people who had a sin manipulated by the devil which was a devalue of envy ................. So in God justice God gave the name of Jesus all the authority of God the creator were if man rejected the devil and his manipulation and turn to side with Jesus they the justice of God men sin would be forgiven and then saved to God , which bring life and eternal protection ............................In the animal sacrifices of the burnt offering the sins would be forgiven by God and carried away ,........... but if the people just continued to sin then the sacrifices of the burnt offering would be useless as the devil would come right back and claim curses in the spirit ........., as this burn offering was a reflection shadow of Jesus Christ to come , and people would be eternally judged then when Jesus came
No, I don't think that works. I am pretty sure that the crucifixion is seen as an analogy of Jewish sacrifice of a lamb as atoning for sins, but it wasn't his death that was the sacrifice because as pointed out, he didn't stay dead for long. The idea is that it was very, very painful. This acceptance of the suffering provided a way of escaping the sin-death brought about by Adam's disobedience. And it was not so much an offense against God, but something that God planned in order to release humanity from sin -death.
We may wonder if that is enough to atone for all humanity's sins and of course we still have the same sins! But that's the idea.
Why would the literal understanding only start with the NT, and not the whole Bible? And it is not the most humble way of speaking to suggest that only your explanation is the one that needs to be considered. The prophesies were quiet clear, yet your suggesting they were only suggestions. That is not the way most Christians would understand it.
I didn't say that a literal understanding only began with the New Testament, nor have I said or implied that the prophesies were only suggestions. As I have said, the Levitical animal sacrifices were types or pictures of the future sacrifice that Jesus would make. Whenever an animal was sacrificed, it was a graphic reminder to the Jews of God's promise that a Savior would come into the world.
The Messianic prophecies in the Old Testament were quite real. They were and are to have a literal fulfillment. Many of the Messianic prophecies are to be fulfilled when Jesus returns at His second advent. Some of them were fulfilled at His first advent.
Many of the Messianic prophecies are to be fulfilled when Jesus returns at His second advent.
Can you point out just where in the Jewish scriptures it says that their 'Messiah' will come, do half the job that he is supposed to do, be killed and then return at some unknown date to finish the job? In fact, the opposite is true. According to the Jews the Messiah will come only once and when he does he will fulfil all the prophecies at that time. There is no death, there is no 'second-coming'. The 'second coming' is a purely Christian invention.
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Some of them were fulfilled at His first advent.
Really! Which ones would those be?? The Jesus character did not build the third Temple or gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel, nor did he bring in an era of world peace and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease nor did he unite all the world under one god and he wasn't a descendant of King David. The Jewish messiah is also supposed to be a normal human and not a god or god-like in any way, born normally to normal parents.
As the prophesied Jewish messiah, your Jesus was an abject, miserable failure.
Can you point out just where in the Jewish scriptures it says that their 'Messiah' will come, do have the job that he is supposed to do, be killed and then return at some unknown date to finish the job? In fact, ther opposite is true. According to the Jews the Messiah will come only once and when he does he will fulfil all the prophecies at that time. There is no death, there is no 'second-coming'. The 'second coming' is a purely Christian invention.
You're right I think. Stand by for some obscure Bible verse that has been twisted to say what he wants it to say.
We risk going off the topic and onto "Jesus fulfilled prophecy". I am sure Raffs, that you have seen them. You may also have seen my evidence that many were fiddled to fit the story - e.g, Judas' death and Acts 15.16 which alters Amos to make it work. in other cases, the story was constructed to fit the prophecy, like the Massacre at Bethlehem.
There are arguably scriptures about the prophecies of Jesus' death from the old Testament.
However, every successful sacrifice in the Old Testament was a burnt offering, and the Hebrew word used to describe the burnt offerings literally meant, to be carried away, up in smoke. There was literally nothing left, so why would Jesus' resurrection after his death not have negated the sacrifice. For it to count, according to Old Testament law, there should be nothing left but ashes.
A conundrum?
Why did Jesus die upon the execution stake? If you can answer that, then you'll have the answer to your question.
On the other hand, if you don't know why Jesus died, then you need to travel back in time to the Hebrew residence in Egypt.
The Hebrew people were slaves of the Egyptian state for many years. In due time, God delivered them from Egyptian bondage by means of ten plagues that were visited upon Egypt. Each plague was a demonstration of the power of Adonai over the gods of Egypt. In each case, Egyptian gods and beliefs were destroyed. Gradually, the entire infrastructure of the Egyptian empire was destroyed. The final plague was death.
God revealed to His people that He would send the angel of death to kill the firstborn of Egypt - from the cattle in the field to the sons and daughters of everyone who lived there. Everyone. There were no exceptions except one.
God told His people to kill an unblemished lamb and to smear its blood upon the door posts and lintel (top beam of the main doorway) of their homes. The angel of death was instructed to spare the lives of any people who lived within a house that was covered by the blood.
At the end of that night, the Hebrew people were released from bondage and allowed to go free.
Freedom NEVER comes to any nation or person except by the effusion of blood. Never.
In the same way, mankind is slave to sin. Not for nothing is Jesus called the lamb of God, because His is the unblemished innocent blood that God passes over when judgment is done. When the blood of Christ is applied to the life of one who accepts it -by faith -(in the same way that the Hebrews painted the lamb's blood by faith upon their doorways) then that person is freed from sin and judgment of God.
The sacrifice of Christ for sin is permanent. The resurrection is a guarantee of its efficacy, not expiration of it. The blessing of the Holy Spirit upon the individual lives of believers is a measure of eternal life in this world and guarantee of divine blessings both now and forever.
We risk going off the topic and onto "Jesus fulfilled prophecy". I am sure Raffs, that you have seen them. You may also have seen my evidence that many were fiddled to fit the story - e.g, Judas' death and Acts 15.16 which alters Amos to make it work. in other cases, the story was constructed to fit the prophecy, like the Massacre at Bethlehem.
Indeed I have seen them old horse. Superb work they are too.
Why did Jesus die upon the execution stake? If you can answer that, then you'll have the answer to your question.
It might be better to demonstrate the existence of Jesus before you talk about his death.
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The Hebrew people were slaves of the Egyptian state for many years.
Not according to modern research. They were more likely to have been immigrant labour
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In due time, God delivered them from Egyptian bondage by means of ten plagues that were visited upon Egypt. Each plague was a demonstration of the power of Adonai over the gods of Egypt. In each case, Egyptian gods and beliefs were destroyed. Gradually, the entire infrastructure of the Egyptian empire was destroyed. The final plague was death.
...and yet there is not a single scrap of evidence, not a single mention of any such plagues in written Egyptian history.
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God revealed to His people that He would send the angel of death to kill the firstborn of Egypt - from the cattle in the field to the sons and daughters of everyone who lived there. Everyone. There were no exceptions except one.
No evidence for that either.
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Freedom NEVER comes to any nation or person except by the effusion of blood. Never.
Why would an omnimax deity need to resort to such methods?
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Not for nothing is Jesus called the lamb of God, ....
...and do you even realise where that came from? In Sumerian mythology, the lamb was also believed to be the 'substitute for humanity'?
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The sacrifice of Christ for sin is permanent. The resurrection is a guarantee of its efficacy, not expiration of it.
...and yet we still have the same 'sins'!
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....and that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
It might be an idea to read something other than your Bible before you 'holler' again.
Can you point out just where in the Jewish scriptures it says that their 'Messiah' will come, do half the job that he is supposed to do, be killed and then return at some unknown date to finish the job? In fact, the opposite is true. According to the Jews the Messiah will come only once and when he does he will fulfil all the prophecies at that time. There is no death, there is no 'second-coming'. The 'second coming' is a purely Christian invention.
Really! Which ones would those be?? The Jesus character did not build the third Temple or gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel, nor did he bring in an era of world peace and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease nor did he unite all the world under one god and he wasn't a descendant of King David. The Jewish messiah is also supposed to be a normal human and not a god or god-like in any way, born normally to normal parents.
As the prophesied Jewish messiah, your Jesus was an abject, miserable failure.
The fact that the Messiah would die is prophesied in Daniel 9:26 and Isaiah 53.
Daniel 9:26 "Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.
To be ''cut off'' is an idiom for being killed.
The fact that He would offer Himself up for our sins and die is prophesied in Isaiah 53. In Isaiah 53:8 the phrase, 'cut off' is again used of the suffering servant which refers to Jesus as both Jesus (Luke 22:37) and the apostle Philip (Acts 8:26-35) confirmed.
When Jesus stood up in the synagogue and read from the prophecy of Isaiah 61, He read only a portion of it. The portion that He read He stated to have been fulfilled in His reading of it. He didn't read the remainder of the prophecy because it was to be fulfilled upon His return.
Luke 4:17 And the book of the prophet Isaiah was handed to Him. And He opened the book and found the place where it was written, 18] “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed, 19] to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.” 20] And He closed the book, gave it back to the attendant and sat down; and the eyes of all in the synagogue were fixed on Him. 21] And He began to say to them, "Today this Scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing."
The portion of Isaiah 61 that Jesus read was verses 1-2. The remainder of the prophesy, from verse 3 onward will be fulfilled at the second advent of Jesus when He establishes His Millennial kingdom.
The reason that the Messianic prophecies don't make a distinction between what was to be fulfilled at Jesus' first advent and what is to be fulfilled when He returns is because our present dispensation of the church was not revealed in Old Testament times. It was kept under wraps as stated in Ephesians chapter 3. Since there was no indication in the Old Testament that the age of Israel would be interrupted and put on hold for the insertion of the church age, the Messianic prophecies did not make a distinction between the two advents of Jesus and that some things would be fulfilled at His second advent.
This chart by Clarence Larkin, ''The Mountain Peaks of Prophecy,'' demonstrates that the fact that there would be two advents of Jesus was hidden from the Jews but is known to the church.
No, Jesus wasn't a failure. He accomplished what He came to accomplish at His first advent. And He will accomplish what remains to be accomplished when He returns.
But you won't understand any of this because you don't even believe that either Jesus or the apostles existed historically. Until and unless you come to realize that they did exist, it is pointless to even discuss any of this with you.
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