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The must frustrating thing for me is that MisticPhD has repeatedly said the the Bible 'CONTAINS inspirations' from God, but only He is spiritually astute enough to know which verses are inspired and which aren't.
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Your Favorite Fundie
Mystic has NEVER said any such thing. He has said (paraphrasing) that one must view the bible through the lens of the spirit of God who is love to discern it rightly; everyone is capable of doing that, but many choose not to.
I lean more towards it being a spiritual awakening from the slumber of race belief and separation from God to the reality of who we really are, that person we forgot that we are by being lulled to sleep by race belief and belief in separation from God.
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Jesus said to Nicodemus 'you must be born again (or) from above' not 'you must be conceived again.' Also He did not say 'you must be spiritually awakened again'. Mankind without God is not spiritually asleep but spiritually dead, thus the need for a spiritual rebirth.
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Jesus Christ from a young age saw and knew where he came from and by it grew in stature and wisdom.
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Agreed!!!
Yet the one difference between Him even in His youth and us is that He did not have the inclination to sin as we do. It was at the age of 12 that he began to understand His special relationship with the Father. He is the only begotten of the Father (God). He was conceived of the Holy Spirit. We on the other hand are the procreation of a man and a woman.
MysticPhD and others like him insist that the only characteristic that God has is LOVE and our "ignorant, barbaric and savage ancestors" and I have it all wrong concerning the nature of God.
MysticPhDand others like him insist that the only characteristic that God has is LOVE and our "ignorant, barbaric and savage ancestors" and I have it all wrong concerning the nature of God.
Your Favorite Fundie
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you are not flat-out lying by making these false statements, and it's simply a matter of unintentionally reading things into what others say that allow you to dismiss their points without any thought on your part.
Mystic has NEVER said that the only characteristic God has is love. What has been said is that God IS love. If you believe that, then everything else which is true of God cannot contradict that.
Originally Posted by diakonos The must frustrating thing for me is that MisticPhD has repeatedly said the the Bible 'CONTAINS inspirations' from God, but only He is spiritually astute enough to know which verses are inspired and which aren't.
<snip>
Your Favorite Fundie
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Originally Posted by Pleroo
Mystic has NEVER said any such thing. He has said (paraphrasing) that one must view the bible through the lens of the spirit of God who is love to discern it rightly; everyone is capable of doing that, but many choose not to.
I'm sorry I should have made myself clearer. The bold in my post which is quoted above was meant to be my observation based on what MysticPhD has said. However since he does not believe all of the Bible is the inspired word of God it makes little or no sense to use any of it to point out contradictions in his beliefs. Because the spirit of God dwelling in him tells him that anything but his beliefs are wrong.
I'm sorry I should have made myself clearer. The bold in my post which is quoted above was meant to be my observation based on what MysticPhD has said.
And again he has NEVER claimed that he is the only one with spiritual maturity to discern truth.
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However since he does not believe all of the Bible is the inspired word of God it makes little or no sense to use any of it to point out contradictions in his beliefs. Because the spirit of God dwelling in him tells him that anything but his beliefs are wrong.
And again, IF you believe that God IS love, anything which contradicts that is what is wrong.
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So I can safely assume you agree with MysticPhd.
Your Favorite Fundie
Since you obviously still do not understand what Mystic is saying, I think you will do well not to assume anything about what I do and do not agree with.
I'm sorry I should have made myself clearer. The bold in my post which is quoted above was meant to be my observation based on what MysticPhD has said. However since he does not believe all of the Bible is the inspired word of God it makes little or no sense to use any of it to point out contradictions in his beliefs. Because the spirit of God dwelling in him tells him that anything but his beliefs are wrong.
So I can safely assume you agree with MysticPhd.
Your Favorite Fundie
The point is that YOU believe that the Bible is authority in its own right and contradictions in it should give YOU pause, not that you will acknowledge that they are contradictions. What Mystic and others believe is that thew Bible can be a useful TOOL for the Spirit, but the authority belongs to the Spirit as promised by Jesus and recorded in more than one place in YOUR authority. Do you believe that the Spirit is to be our guide?
The point is that YOU believe that the Bible is authority in its own right and contradictions in it should give YOU pause, not that you will acknowledge that they are contradictions. What Mystic and others believe is that thew Bible can be a useful TOOL for the Spirit, but the authority belongs to the Spirit as promised by Jesus and recorded in more than one place in YOUR authority. Do you believe that the Spirit is to be our guide?
In answer to your question, yes. the Holy Spirit is our guide. Jesus said to His disciples:
(John 14:25 [NKJV])
“These things I have spoken to you while being present with you.
(John 14:26 [NKJV])
“But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you."
He will teach us all things and bring to remembrance all things the Jesus said.
In answer to your question, yes. the Holy Spirit is our guide. Jesus said to His disciples:
(John 14:25 [NKJV])
“These things I have spoken to you while being present with you.
(John 14:26 [NKJV])
“But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you."
He will teach us all things and bring to remembrance all things the Jesus said.
Your Favorite Fundie
So, why do you supplant the promised guide with a book to which you assign the authority of the Spirit?
When the SOURCE of the "begetting" is MALE it is always conception, period! Of course, it can refer to an actual birth when the SOURCE is FEMALE, or when we are talking specifically about a BIRTH EVENT of a person whether male or female or figuratively, as in your example of Paul and his citizenship.
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Originally Posted by nateswift
Personal opinion: Mystic has this wrong: the "born again" comes when we turn our lives around and commit to the love Jesus taught as a way of life. I think that what he is talking about is "sanctification," but I also think that the difference in perception on this makes no difference whatsoever to the message of Christ and is not worth arguing about.
I suspect we are simply talking past each other, rather than disagreeing, nate. There is and WILL be a birth, but it will happen upon our physical death when we are "born as Spirit." That which is born of Spirit is Spirit, not Flesh. However, what you are referring to is a Spiritual awakening (Sanctification), what I call the Conception of our Spiritual "pregnancy," as the Seed of God's love is implanted in our consciousness and we begin to develop spiritually. This seems to be what you are referring to as turning our lives around and committing to the love Jesus taught and demonstrated as a way of life.
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Originally Posted by pcamps
I lean more towards it being a spiritual awakening from the slumber of race belief and separation from God to the reality of who we really are, that person we forgot that we are by being lulled to sleep by race belief and belief in separation from God. Jesus Christ from a young age saw and knew where he came from and by it grew in stature and wisdom.
This is an excellent way of looking at it too, pcamps. But it is a definite process ("spiritual pregnancy") with a definite end, Rebirth as Spirit upon our death.
And again he has NEVER claimed that he is the only one with spiritual maturity to discern truth.
And again, IF you believe that God IS love, anything which contradicts that is what is wrong.
Since you obviously still do not understand what Mystic is saying, I think you will do well not to assume anything about what I do and do not agree with.
The agape love is just oozing out of you.. so many bright lights of agape love on this forum, I guess that's why there's such a positive atmosphere in the threads here like I mentioned in my opening post.
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