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Well to what I have already said, I suppose I can add the following...
One of the things which appealed to me most were the anti-religious elements in Christianity and the Bible. I saw a frank recognition that religion can be quite harmful. Contrary to what the more ignorant redneck types portray, the people Jesus had difficulty with and animosity towards where neither the nonreligious nor the less reputable (by occupation or heretical group) but rather the most self-righteously religious. And this was true of the apostle Paul also.
One way of summing up the gospel of Jesus Christ is to say that all the religions which promise, that if you do the right things then you will be on the side of God and He will take care of you, are all a lie and a cheat. What really matters is changing who you are in your very heart and soul to embrace love and decency to your fellow human beings. And while this is generally impossible for us to do by ourselves, God can if we seek His help.
Do you not feel that others can embrace love and be decent to others with another God belief system or no belief in a God?
I am a vocal opponent of the kind of xtianity which I call Gnostic legalism -- salvation by works of the mind such as believing in a set of dogmas. That is just another set of things that religions say you have to do in order to get the prize and I see this as being just as much of a cheat and lie as any other religion doing such a thing. In other words, I don't see belief regarding objectively undecidable issues as playing such a crucial role in any of this.
You may ask who can we seek God's help if we do not believe He exists? Well "God" is just a word after all, and I don't it is so important that we use it. The truth is many atheist have told me they are fine with some God helping if such a thing does exist, but they just don't have any reason to believe it does exist. Sure they may outright reject the blatantly evil versions of God pushed some xtians, but it turns out that I reject such a demonic godfather just as much as they do.
I am a vocal opponent of the kind of xtianity which I call Gnostic legalism -- salvation by works of the mind such as believing in a set of dogmas. That is just another set of things that religions say you have to do in order to get the prize and I see this as being just as much of a cheat and lie as any other religion doing such a thing. In other words, I don't see belief regarding objectively undecidable issues as playing such a crucial role in any of this.
You may ask who can we seek God's help if we do not believe He exists? Well "God" is just a word after all, and I don't it is so important that we use it. The truth is many atheist have told me they are fine with some God helping if such a thing does exist, but they just don't have any reason to believe it does exist. Sure they may outright reject the blatantly evil versions of God pushed some xtians, but it turns out that I reject such a demonic godfather just as much as they do.
Actually, I am asking how you came to believe in this God, whatever his/her attributes, whose help is generally required for individuals to treat others with love and decency, when others who have opposing beliefs, including atheists, treat others well daily?
Actually, I am asking how you came to believe in this God, whatever his/her attributes, whose help is generally required for individuals to treat others with love and decency, when others who have opposing beliefs, including atheists, treat others well daily?
So, try to understand what he has said and your questions have been answered.
Actually, I am asking how you came to believe in this God, whatever his/her attributes, whose help is generally required for individuals to treat others with love and decency, when others who have opposing beliefs, including atheists, treat others well daily?
You are conflating two issues here:
HOW (How did he come to believe in "this God" whose help is required).
WHY does he think such a belief is necessary.
He has answered the WHY: There is no why, because he does NOT believe such a belief is necessary.
So now, if you understand that straightforward answer to the WHY, you can concentrate on asking about the HOW, if you are actually interested.
HOW (How did he come to believe in "this God" whose help is required).
WHY does he think such a belief is necessary.
He has answered the WHY: There is no why, because he does NOT believe such a belief is necessary.
So now, if you understand that straightforward answer to the WHY, you can concentrate on asking about the HOW, if you are actually interested.
That was my original question. I've never asked for the what, just the how. The insinuation was that he came to the God belief (specifically the Christian God belief) because God's help was required to be decent and loving to others. Since he and everyone else seems to believe that the God belief isn't necessary for individuals to be loving and decent, how else did he come to this God belief?
That was my original question. I've never asked for the what, just the how. The insinuation was that he came to the God belief (specifically the Christian God belief) because God's help was required to be decent and loving to others. Since he and everyone else seems to believe that the God belief isn't necessary for individuals to be loving and decent, how else did he come to this God belief?
Bullwhoop. Please demonstrate that you read and understand his first post.
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I can't figure out where the disconnect is. The answer to your question IS there, and it is very apparent.
