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I can think of several things that fall under this category. I will make a short list. Feel free to add to the list. Do you think the early Christians could have imagined such things?
1. Christian Jewelry: cross necklaces and earrings made of gold, silver and precious stones worn as a display of one's identity with Christianity. Also doves, nails, etc... made into jewelry for Christians.
2. Christian novels. Example: The Left Behind Series. There are many Christian novels for sale in Christian bookstores, some written for teens, Christian romance novels, etc. Frankly, 'Christian Bookstores' in general selling 'Christian' gifts, coffee mugs, bumper stickers, angel figurines, etc.
3. Christian Billboards: Advertisements for particular churches, or the extreme kind like the one by the 7th Day Adventist church that proclaimed Sunday worship was the mark of the beast.
Can you think of others? How do you feel about the commercialization of Christianity? I would imagine it is pretty rampant in Israel in the tourist areas. I know when I visited the Vatican City in Rome I was quite stunned by all the shops on the way to the Vatican selling Catholic souvenirs -- little pope figurines and all manner of crucifixes. I think this is simply a result of our human nature and the system we live in that is ruled by money.
think a distinction can and should be made between stuff being "sold" by churches and religious bodies themselves for potential beneficial purposes (hopefully religious evangelization ("spreading the gospel") and charitable purposes/feeding the hungry, etc. ) and those being sold by independent retailers who are generally in for the money strictly and for which bibles, ornaments, and whatever are simply a specialty consumer market they are selling to.
can you say with certainty for example if all or even most of the shops on the way to the Vatican were operated by the church or in most case very devout CAPITALISTS who were making a (hopefully) honest buck/lira selling to folks (not all of them Catholic) who were minded to buy souvenirs petty or profound of their trip? FWIW buying souvenirs (crosses, statues, pictures, bibles, whatever) was probably not a religious requirement to get into St. Peter's so nobody should be too suspicious of sacrilege or simony in such cases and just maybe somewhere down the line someone who bought something of that nature might be moved to remember or learn the spiritual content that should underlie such material things---Christ died for us on a cross and God's word of salvation is contained in the bible, etc. and go on from there to better things through, with, and in Christ.
that there are people and groups who are nominally religious who misuse all or part of what ever they get by "commerce" or donation is part of our fallen and sinful human nature and a scandal to all churches and people of faith but to potentially forbid any and all money-making/fund-raising activities for the spread of the gospel (maybe even billboards!!!), the maintenance of facilities used for worship and charity, and other "good works" done for God and neighbor is not good either.
sadly most everything costs money and uses resources and even the holiest of people doing the noblest of works for the best and most sincere intentions must at some point deal with this reality: you can get a bus donated for the youth group for them to give donated food to the needy and a volunteer to drive it to get to the needy but wouldn't you know most of the time somebody has to put some money down to pay for the gas and the insurance and all those nitty gritty details that unattended to or unpaid will derail God's work someway and somehow.
it's hard to really say what the early Christians would have done or not done since for several centuries at least after Christ they were likely a small and rather poor sometimes persecuted and often despised minority with little disposable income to buy much of anything except the barest necessities and likely the possession of Christian symbols like crosses or similar things would have been potentially dangerous to them at times. of course things like individual copies of the scriptures would have been extremely expensive for most individuals, dangerous to possess at times, and since most were illiterate not much use to them anyway.
in the peace of Christ.
Last edited by georgeinbandonoregon; 12-28-2016 at 04:21 PM..
There is a large church in the area where I grew up, the kind that broadcasts its Sunday services on a radio station. There's a Christian school there, and they have a bookstore. When my father was alive, I got the idea to get a certain book for him for Christmas, theology-related, and I knew I could get it there.
It turned out to be more than a bookstore. T-shirts, mugs, jewellry, all the things mentioned above. I remember thinking, "Wow, Christianity is a big business."
We aren't alone in that. I work in a neighborhood that is the largest Jewish Orthodox community outside of Israel. Judaica is a booming business. The deli sells CDs at the counter with what I can only describe as Chasidic pop stars smiling on the cover, the titles all in Hebrew, of course. There's a Judaica store that sells all sorts of interesting-looking items, but I don't go in, just look in the window. But today they had three gorgeous silver menorahs on display.
Yes, I think it is just human nature. I don't condemn anyone for any of it. I just wondered what people thought about it.
I really do like the Jewish Menorah. I don't have one, but I like the symbolism of it. I'm not Catholic or Jewish. But Jesus certainly was a Jew and he is my Lord. So I tend to like Jewish symbolism.
I did not mean to imply that the Vatican was selling the trinkets. I honestly can't remember all the details but these seemed to be privately owned shops leading to the Vatican. St. Peter's Basilica is incredible. There was so much "stuff" in the Vatican it really blew my mind. I do not know where it all came from.
I have visited churches that had bookstores at the church.
I have been troubled at times by how much stuff I have acquired over a lifetime. It really begins to bog one down to have to manage too much stuff. I'm working on minimizing my worldly possessions. I don't want other people to have to get rid of it when I am gone.
I have a friend who owns a Catholic bookstore. He sells all sorts of things: books, DVDs, rosaries, jewelry. He is a very devout man and quietly donates a percentage of the profits to his church.....which is in a poor, gang-ridden neighborhood in Los Angeles.
I have a friend who owns a Catholic bookstore. He sells all sorts of things: books, DVDs, rosaries, jewelry. He is a very devout man and quietly donates a percentage of the profits to his church.....which is in a poor, gang-ridden neighborhood in Los Angeles.
Thanks for chiming in, DewDrop. I have heard that statistically, the U.S. is one of the most religious nations on the face of the earth. I used to enjoy browsing Christian bookstores back in the day when I was still searching for answers to God's Ultimate plan. I read a LOT of Christian books.
Yes, I think it is just human nature. I don't condemn anyone for any of it. I just wondered what people thought about it.
I really do like the Jewish Menorah. I don't have one, but I like the symbolism of it. I'm not Catholic or Jewish. But Jesus certainly was a Jew and he is my Lord. So I tend to like Jewish symbolism.
I did not mean to imply that the Vatican was selling the trinkets. I honestly can't remember all the details but these seemed to be privately owned shops leading to the Vatican. St. Peter's Basilica is incredible. There was so much "stuff" in the Vatican it really blew my mind. I do not know where it all came from.
I have visited churches that had bookstores at the church.
I have been troubled at times by how much stuff I have acquired over a lifetime. It really begins to bog one down to have to manage too much stuff. I'm working on minimizing my worldly possessions. I don't want other people to have to get rid of it when I am gone.
It feels great to get rid of stuff! I just had a veterans organization pick up tons of stuff earlier this month. Clothing that didn't and that I didn't need, garden tools I don't need, dishes I don't need. I want less stuff.
20 years,ago this January, I had a fire in the house I rented and lost almost everything, and in a way, it was cleansing. I mean, it was devastating, and my first cat died which was the worst part of all, but it also made me realize how little value there is in stuff.
It feels great to get rid of stuff! I just had a veterans organization pick up tons of stuff earlier this month. Clothing that didn't and that I didn't need, garden tools I don't need, dishes I don't need. I want less stuff.
20 years,ago this January, I had a fire in the house I rented and lost almost everything, and in a way, it was cleansing. I mean, it was devastating, and my first cat died which was the worst part of all, but it also made me realize how little value there is in stuff.
That must have been devastating, especially losing the cat. I used to have a recurring dream about a house being on fire. I dreamed it over and over for many years until the time I was delivered from my fear of death and hell. Then I came to believe that the house on fire represented me being baptized with the fire of God and becoming one with God - becoming one with the Holy Fire of God.
That must have been devastating, especially losing the cat. I used to have a recurring dream about a house being on fire. I dreamed it over and over for many years until the time I was delivered from my fear of death and hell. Then I came to believe that the house on fire represented me being baptized with the fire of God and becoming one with God - becoming one with the Holy Fire of God.
Wow, I like that interpretation. A house in a dream usually does represent oneself.
Yes, the cat dying was heartbreaking. He was 11 months old. I never had a cat before--my husband brought a kitten home for our daughter, who was 5.
A few years later, I ended up with four cats, three of which I took in "temporarily". I still have two of them--just lost one in October and the other 3 years ago.
I can think of several things that fall under this category. I will make a short list. Feel free to add to the list. Do you think the early Christians could have imagined such things?
1. Christian Jewelry: cross necklaces and earrings made of gold, silver and precious stones worn as a display of one's identity with Christianity. Also doves, nails, etc... made into jewelry for Christians.
2. Christian novels. Example: The Left Behind Series. There are many Christian novels for sale in Christian bookstores, some written for teens, Christian romance novels, etc. Frankly, 'Christian Bookstores' in general selling 'Christian' gifts, coffee mugs, bumper stickers, angel figurines, etc.
3. Christian Billboards: Advertisements for particular churches, or the extreme kind like the one by the 7th Day Adventist church that proclaimed Sunday worship was the mark of the beast.
Can you think of others? How do you feel about the commercialization of Christianity? I would imagine it is pretty rampant in Israel in the tourist areas. I know when I visited the Vatican City in Rome I was quite stunned by all the shops on the way to the Vatican selling Catholic souvenirs -- little pope figurines and all manner of crucifixes. I think this is simply a result of our human nature and the system we live in that is ruled by money.
Your three points have only touched on the tip of the iceberg.
According to recent surveys nearly every church in America is deeply deeply in debt. Those who have been entrusted with the financial health of these groups have squandered their resources and betrayed the trust of their fellow members. Debts of individual churches often exceed one million dollars each.
Most churches in America are indistinguishable from secular commercial franchises. In point of fact, there are many churches that are openly referred to as franchise branches of their particular denomination. If a church is run like a business what's the difference?
Church leaders play to quantity not quality. Happy talk is preferred to fill seats rather than repentance to cleanse the souls of those who need it. Unfortunately there are better places to glean happiness than the tissue thin false gospel offered from pulpits today. Most folks are intelligent enough to know the difference and vacate the houses of religious profit.
Church leaders are more concerned with putting on a show than putting off the old man of sin. Sunday morning in mega churches often rival Vegas style musical productions. Literature and advice for church leaders more often than not states that entertainment is the core purpose of church services. Unfortunately cheap Vegas imitations don't sit well with folks who expect something spiritual on Sunday morning. A lot of them have left in disappointment.
There are today a growing number of spiritual refugees wandering our cities and towns. Disappointed or enraged by the lack of attention to spiritual needs they constantly seek heavenly food and water in a desert of commercialized religious outlets.
Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
- Luke 21:24b
The church age is finished - over. The times of the gentiles have been fulfilled.
A key historic event happened in 1967 that announced the death of the church as it had been known at the time. The Israeli Defense Forces liberated Jerusalem. From that time until this and into the future, the fortunes of the church have been and shall be - withered and dying.
and that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
Last edited by mensaguy; 12-30-2016 at 06:48 AM..
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