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Easy. Telling them sin is ok is NOT agape love. It's selfishness and hate, because self loves to be well thought of and exalted to the exclusion of the well being of others = respect of persons. Peace
I call you on this falsehood. Agape love LOVES people despite their sin. It's what Jesus did. No one needs to be "told" about their sin. They know. Just like you do. What you are doing now is attempting to rationalize a judgmental attitude toward those without your "special" gifts.
No one wishes to follow the Jesus you've created, rbbi1. It's only when Christ is lifted up in love that men and women can see Him.
However, the numbers are with you. Judgmental christians purely overpower the Word of Christ in this country. They are all attempting to make people toe the line--and their line is spiritually what it is economically---capitalism---all about getting something for self.
Agape love does not think of self first. That's why your tongues are meaningless. They do not appear to be founded in love for the unlovable.
That's where Jesus has capitalist christians "trumped" so to speak. It isn't about how I look in God's eyes, it's how I treat others. Go read the story of the the servant who was forgiven his debt told in Matthew 18. You want to be the one who was forgiven much, but you won't return the same to anyone that "doesn't measure up" to your standard of righteousness--which is but a legality.
Many of us have been forgiven much more than you have ever owed--and because of that, we extend the same to others. Christ died for us---as He did for the WHOLE WORLD, not just the elect, and not just for those who have received particular gifts.
For all (1st Timothy 2:6; Isaiah 53:6).
For every man (Heb. 2:9).
For the world (John 3:16).
For the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2).
For the ungodly (Rom. 5:6).
For false teachers (2 Peter 2:1).
For many (Matthew 20:28).
For Israel (John 11:50-51).
For the Church (Eph. 5:25).
For "me" (Gal. 2:20).
You are still in milk, but God calls for you to leave behind the lesser gifts and move to those that have more impact in others' lives.
I know your limited spirituality blinds you to see God in the secular. But there is a Celine Dion song that speaks to me about the love God has for me--and makes me want to strive to give it to others.
For all those times you stood by me
For all the truth that you made me see
For all the joy you brought to my life
For all the wrong that you made right
For every dream you made come true
For all the love I found in you
I'll be forever thankful baby
You're the one who held me up
Never let me fall
You're the one who saw me through through it all
You were my strength when I was weak
You were my voice when I couldn't speak
You were my eyes when I couldn't see
You saw the best there was in me
Lifted me up when I couldn't reach
You gave me faith 'coz you believed
I'm everything I am
Because you loved me
You gave me wings and made me fly
You touched my hand I could touch the sky
I lost my faith, you gave it back to me
You said no star was out of reach
You stood by me and I stood tall
I had your love I had it all
I'm grateful for each day you gave me
Maybe I don't know that much But I know this much is true
I was blessed because I was loved by you
You were my strength when I was weak
You were my voice when I couldn't speak
You were my eyes when I couldn't see
You saw the best there was in me
Lifted me up when I couldn't reach
You gave me faith 'coz you believed I'm everything I am
Because you loved me
You were always there for me
The tender wind that carried me
A light in the dark shining your love into my life
You've been my inspiration
Through the lies you were the truth My world is a better place because of you
You were my strength when I was weak
You were my voice when I couldn't speak
You were my eyes when I couldn't see
You saw the best there was in me
Lifted me up when I couldn't reach
You gave me faith 'coz you believed
I'm everything I am
Because you loved me
I'm everything I am
Because you loved me
If Jesus did that for you, then try doing it for others. You are their servant, not their judge. And until one gets that right, nothing they do is of any value (I Cor. 13)
My religion is the religion of God, his feasts, his traditions, his rituals.
Usually if people don't understand me, they usually don't know the Jewish feasts and traditions.
God had made many promises to his son and one of these is that he would rule the nations with a rod of iron, and how does Jesus do this today?
He does it from within.
Everything that God promised to Jesus, Jesus promises his son, and now,'' THEY SHALL RULE ALL NATIONS.''
Just as Jesus rules from within, just as Jesus was given sole power over the Earth, the overcomers also are given power.
God also looks at them and says,'' This is my son in whom I am well pleased.''
The promises to the overcomer are not that they go to heaven, but that they have become brethren with Christ and given sole rule over an entire earth where they alone will rule ALL nations.
God will put all nations under their feet, every nations upon an earth to their rule.
The Israelites( religion) have been cut off- Matt 23:37-39--until they do verse 39--they have refused for over 1900 years. Jesus began a new religion--it is referred to as Israel in revelation-meaning--spiritual Israel--these--serve YHWH(Jehovah) as the only true God and accept Jesus as the one sent forth by God-The Messiah.
Easy. Telling them sin is ok is NOT agape love. It's selfishness and hate, because self loves to be well thought of and exalted to the exclusion of the well being of others = respect of persons. Peace
Explain what you think this verse means, Rbbi:
2 Corinthians 5:18-19 New International Version (NIV)
18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.
If God is not counting our sins against us, why are YOU doing so????
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden
I call you on this falsehood. Agape love LOVES people despite their sin. It's what Jesus did. No one needs to be "told" about their sin. They know. Just like you do. What you are doing now is attempting to rationalize a judgmental attitude toward those without your "special" gifts.
No one wishes to follow the Jesus you've created, rbbi1. It's only when Christ is lifted up in love that men and women can see Him.
However, the numbers are with you. Judgmental christians purely overpower the Word of Christ in this country. They are all attempting to make people toe the line--and their line is spiritually what it is economically---capitalism---all about getting something for self.
Agape love does not think of self first. That's why your tongues are meaningless. They do not appear to be founded in love for the unlovable.
That's where Jesus has capitalist christians "trumped" so to speak. It isn't about how I look in God's eyes, it's how I treat others. Go read the story of the the servant who was forgiven his debt told in Matthew 18. You want to be the one who was forgiven much, but you won't return the same to anyone that "doesn't measure up" to your standard of righteousness--which is but a legality.
Many of us have been forgiven much more than you have ever owed--and because of that, we extend the same to others. Christ died for us---as He did for the WHOLE WORLD, not just the elect, and not just for those who have received particular gifts.
For all (1st Timothy 2:6; Isaiah 53:6).
For every man (Heb. 2:9).
For the world (John 3:16).
For the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2).
For the ungodly (Rom. 5:6).
For false teachers (2 Peter 2:1).
For many (Matthew 20:28).
For Israel (John 11:50-51).
For the Church (Eph. 5:25).
For "me" (Gal. 2:20).
You are still in milk, but God calls for you to leave behind the lesser gifts and move to those that have more impact in others' lives.
I know your limited spirituality blinds you to see God in the secular. But there is a Celine Dion song that speaks to me about the love God has for me--and makes me want to strive to give it to others.
For all those times you stood by me
For all the truth that you made me see
For all the joy you brought to my life
For all the wrong that you made right
For every dream you made come true
For all the love I found in you
I'll be forever thankful baby
You're the one who held me up
Never let me fall
You're the one who saw me through through it all
You were my strength when I was weak
You were my voice when I couldn't speak
You were my eyes when I couldn't see
You saw the best there was in me
Lifted me up when I couldn't reach
You gave me faith 'coz you believed
I'm everything I am
Because you loved me
You gave me wings and made me fly
You touched my hand I could touch the sky
I lost my faith, you gave it back to me
You said no star was out of reach
You stood by me and I stood tall
I had your love I had it all
I'm grateful for each day you gave me
Maybe I don't know that much But I know this much is true
I was blessed because I was loved by you
You were my strength when I was weak
You were my voice when I couldn't speak
You were my eyes when I couldn't see
You saw the best there was in me
Lifted me up when I couldn't reach
You gave me faith 'coz you believed I'm everything I am
Because you loved me
You were always there for me
The tender wind that carried me
A light in the dark shining your love into my life
You've been my inspiration
Through the lies you were the truth My world is a better place because of you
You were my strength when I was weak
You were my voice when I couldn't speak
You were my eyes when I couldn't see
You saw the best there was in me
Lifted me up when I couldn't reach
You gave me faith 'coz you believed
I'm everything I am
Because you loved me
I'm everything I am
Because you loved me
If Jesus did that for you, then try doing it for others. You are their servant, not their judge. And until one gets that right, nothing they do is of any value (I Cor. 13)
What can I say, you are an awesome preacher, Warden!
Those two columns are legs which are named,'' Boaz and Jachin.''
The Temple was always meant to be human as it is today, you are that temple. Because it was always planned by God, the original plan is simply to show human anatomy because this is the last evolution of the Temple.
You have 3 divisions of ribs being true ribs, false ribs and floating ribs and so we had to have 3 divisions of priests. There are 24 priests who are elders because of the fact there are 24 ribs. You can't find the comings and goings of the temple and how everything works inside the bible, you have to go to other sources. It's like Revelation speaking of that 30 min of silence, if a Christian has never studied what happens in the sacrifices, they would not have heard of this silence. But when the incense is offered, the priests and the people walk backwards and prostrate themselves on the floor for 30 min of silence, and so this isn't something new, it is something old. When a Jew dies, you buy a huge sandoni linen cloth and you cut it into 7 wraps to wrap a dead man in a cocoon, and so we see the 7 seals coming off in a resurrection. One seal is removed, and the first voice/trump is heard, and then the first bowl is poured out beginning on Rosh Hashanah and ending on Yom, Kippur.
The veils of the temple are 3, and they represent a progressive plan from one place to another in body, in soul, and in spirit as you walk from the broad way of the court into the Holy place and then in through the narrow way of the last veil which has no door and is pushing it's weight against you as you try and enter.
The first veil is a dolphin skin because we are taken from the water and we have to become creatures of air, new beings.
Then there are rams died red because we all begin as the son who would be king but if we want to be a bride of Christ, we have to become a submissive virgin to the will of the spirit and so the next veils are black Samaritan she goats.
The final veil and the one closest to the ark is the fine woven work of linen that the bride must make with her own hands, it is the wedding garment itself.
So we begin as a creature of the sea becoming a new creature of the air and then we have to die to our vanity of the rams and so we are marked and dyed red because it doesn't represent our blood, but the covering blood of Christ and then we become a bride of Samaria, this is Joseph's land and the idea is that a person of David wed a person of Joseph where the two become one.
I would recommend ,'' The Temple,'' by Eidersheim, and the 7 feasts of Christ by Chumney.
But yeah, if somebody is interested in learning Matthew 24 or the book of Revelation, this is strictly the fall holy days appointed for the second coming of Christ and it is instruction on what a person must go through when he would go all the way to death to then be stood up on his feet and given strength to become a new creature, even as Elijah was taken out of the way and Elisha left where he was standing.
Revelation is written to the Jew who knows the feast days and the duties of the priests on feast days and this information is not found in the bible for a reason. John was in exile and people were watching, he was watching as Rome turned back to paganism and so he writes a secret letter that only the Jew could read.
The Holy of Holies veil is to represent the closed door inside a virgin and behind that veil is a uterus.
Jesus consummated a wedding with the father when that veil was rent in two.
The Temple stood all those years with priests dressed as sperm and clothed in seed when they came up to a place with no door, and if just one of them had a clue to what it was, he would have taken a sword and cut through it long ago, but nobody did. And so the temple remained a virgin all those years until Jesus.
That was the original plan, that God would marry Israel and then suddenly transform them where their bodies would have given birth to sons of God but since they committed adultery, Moses went back to the mountain and brought down something new. Now he came down with a design and an ark where he had no such thing in his first coming.
Now God would give them a design and try as they may, to get a temple pregnant to birth a son of God and none of them were able.
A contrast with the human anatomy to satisfy the desires of the flesh?
(A rephrasing of what was previously stated; and frowned upon by others)
He tore the veil wide-open, so all the people could see the truth.
But that which he exposed has raised its head once, again.
Easy. Telling them sin is ok is NOT agape love. It's selfishness and hate, because self loves to be well thought of and exalted to the exclusion of the well being of others = respect of persons. Peace
There is no love without forgiveness, and no forgiveness without love.
For what power has love; but that of forgiveness.
It's not how clean you make yourself, it's what you do for others.
2 Corinthians 5:18-19 New International Version (NIV)
18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.
If God is not counting our sins against us, why are YOU doing so????
What it means is, you don't hold them against them as in YOU judging them, but the WORD judges them, as Jesus (speaking as the Spirit) said. You claim to live on His words, so why aren't you living on that? Salvation is NOT SANCTIFICATION, which IS THE WORKS THE HOLY GHOST DOES.
Try to follow this. G-d the Father, is IN CHRIST Who is SPIRIT, and the death of the flesh (YOUR outer court) on the cross (YOURS) via the HOLY GHOST WHO ACTS AS THE PRIEST IN THE INNER COURT OF THE SOUL, is the ONLY ONE who can reconcile you back to the Father. You must first realize that reconciliation is NOT initial salvation experience of your SPIRIT, because reconciliation requires a SACRIFICE (YOURS), and that sacrifice is your SOUL (make of yourself a LIVING sacrifice). Ever wonder why there were those OUTSIDE the gates in heaven in Revelation? The body's refusal to study the difference between the soul and spirit, and salvation and sanctification, is the reason for this.
What He performed was a WITNESS and a SIGN (there shall be no sign given EXCEPT....), but we have to APPROPRIATE it for ourselves, which is why it says work out YOUR OWN salvation (same word there as deliverance) with fear and trembling. There is a pattern for a reason and didn't DIS-include the inner court MIDDLE/MEDIATOR, of the Holy Ghost, whose job it is to clean us up and drag us to the Father.
Just like a seed that has an outer husk (flesh), a grain/seed, and the life/pattern hidden within that seed such as to make a grain become a mighty tree though it looks nothing like it in that form, so too are we as body, soul, and spirit. Without the death of that husk, the seed is not revealed/uncovered/revelation of Christ within, and without the laying down of that seed (unless a grain of wheat falls to the ground and dies) it abides alone (without the Father manifest). It takes ALL THREE aspects to fulfill the life cycle of that seed.
There is a last will and testament. Seeing it is NOT APPROPRIATING all of it's "codicils", you have to PERFORM the requirements set forth in order to INHERIT. It would be like your brother died and he set forth in his will that if you will do x,y, and z you can inherit his company, his house, his millions, NOT so you can strut about like a peacock but because that you must do these things FOR THEM to receive the blessings due THEM, as you are as an heir the intended head to his family (under the law you despise you are required to RAISE UP SEED to your brother) bless them with what you have inherited and be as their covering in his stead, but ONLY IF you will perform x,y, z.
But what happens if you DON'T perform x,y,z, instead claiming that you've got all you need, not realizing that what your brother attained was ALL you're going to receive, in reality you are poor (poverty), sin ridden (ultimate sickness), and naked (ultimate death = no garment). Oh, I know: you
u get described as Jezebel in Revelation.
By rights, you're a family member to him, even an heir, but you wilfully refuse to do what is right by your brother and his family, keeping from THEM the blessings due them, then by the same measure you yourself are judged.
I challenge you and Warden to COME UP HIGHER, and take the position He died to give you, and don't try and tell me it's because you "have agape love" that you refuse to follow the pattern laid out for you.
Rather than write another lengthy post, this is for you too, Warden....Peace
A contrast with the human anatomy to satisfy the desires of the flesh? (A rephrasing of what was previously stated; and frowned upon by others)
He tore the veil wide-open, so all the people could see the truth. But that which he exposed has raised its head once, again.
No, an immutable pattern displayed for all who have eyes to see, spread as a witness across all three of the heavens, ie. the waters below the firmament, the firmament and the waters above the firmament. Peace
2 Corinthians 5:18-19 New International Version (NIV)
18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.
If God is not counting our sins against us, why are YOU doing so????
This is a good passage. But let's not forget that verse 17 places this in the context of those who are "in Christ". Please note:
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new (1 Cor 5:17).
As we read through the chapter, we can see that essentially born-again believers are being addressed. We can see more if we consider the verses that follow:
2 Cor 5:20-21
20 Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ's behalf, be reconciled to God. 21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
The verses you've cited also include the fact that believers, as "ambassadors for Christ" have been given the ministry of reconciliation, whereby we "implore" people to be reconciled to God. So we have been commissioned to bring the Gospel. And the Gospel message does include the declaration that all of mankind has sinned against a Holy God, and because of this we are under His wrath.
But it does not end there. The heart of the message is that God has made provision whereby we might be saved form His wrath. Through Jesus Christ, who came into this world for the express purpose of bearing that wrath on behalf of all who would believe on Him, we can have forgiveness. By doing this God displayed an act of love and mercy that could never, ever, be matched anywhere else. We talk about the fact that God is love. Once we come face to face with the reality that we are in big trouble with God because of our sins, and then learn that we have a Savior, through whom we can be "reconciled to God", we embrace this Savior with all of our being, and we thank and praise God for His great mercy and grace.
I sincerely believe that in order to properly understand the love of God, we need to understand the desperate state in which we start out (as "children of wrath"...Ephesians 2:3). In spite of this, and the fact that God would be completely just in punishing us, which He declares He must, He still chose to save us (what love!!). By God laying our sins on Christ, our debt is paid, thereby satisfying the demands of God's justice; and now being justified through faith in Christ, we may enjoy fellowship with God for all eternity. This is why Romans 3:26 tells us that God, because of this, can be both "just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus".
Let's look together at Romans 5:8-11:
8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. 10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
And because it is our sins that have us in trouble with God in the first place, it is no wonder that repentance is a key part of the Gospel.
Luke 24:44-48 44 Then He said to them, "These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me." 45 And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures. 46 Then He said to them, "Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, 47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
When God gives us "ears to hear" and a new heart to receive this truth, our attitude toward sin is dramatically changed, and now our obedience to God's commandments is done out of our new love for Him.
While it is important for us to be made aware of the trouble we are in as a result of our natural sinfulness, may it never be that anyone stops the message at that point. The great news (the "good tidings" that we read about and hear about during the Christmas season) is the fact that God has sent to us a Savior. Praise God for His unspeakable gift of love and mercy and grace in Jesus Christ!
Luke 2:8-14 8 Now there were in the same country shepherds living out in the fields, keeping watch over their flock by night. 9 And behold, an angel of the Lord stood before them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were greatly afraid. 10 Then the angel said to them, "Do not be afraid, for behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy which will be to all people. 11 For there is born to you this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord. 12 And this will be the sign to you: You will find a Babe wrapped in swaddling cloths, lying in a manger." 13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God and saying: 14 "Glory to God in the highest,
And on earth peace, goodwill toward men!"
And finally, we are urged to "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ". The promises of God's magnificent salvation are only for those who trust Christ, rather than in their own efforts to be right with God. The Scriptures are clear that we could never be made right with God through our own efforts. It is only through the death and resurrection of Christ on our behalf that we can be reconciled to God. And this will be seen in those who have placed their faith entirely in Him.
May the Lord richly bless you.
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