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1Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe in Me as well. 2In My Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and welcome you into My presence, so that you also may be where I am.
Will I be me?
Well, um, yeah....but I was a gambler in the 1870s, and an Am Indian warrior and an Am Ind squaw and countless personalities, male, young and old and stupid...but in all of them...I was 'me'.
So are you saying you believe in reincarnation, or am I misunderstanding you?
1Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe in Me as well. 2In My Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and welcome you into My presence, so that you also may be where I am.
Absolutely. And Paul stated that he had been caught up to the third heaven, to paradise where he heard things which he was not permitted to speak (2 Corinthians 12:2-4). As well, John in his vision is taken up into heaven where he sees things which he is told to write down as recorded in the book of Revelation. And of course in chapter 6:9-11 the Tribulational martyrs are standing under the altar in heaven.
nipped for space, if I cherry picked, let me know.
Well, OK. It seems obvious to me that believing you are a creature of God in a God-created universe with the possibility of eternal life in God's kingdom is far more "uplifting" and brings far more "meaning and purpose" to life. But atheists must find their meaning and purpose where they can, I guess.
philosophy gets to make stuff up as needed. "philosophical formal logic doesn't have to put in any real values for "X". Unlike science and engineering. we have to put a value in for "x" more often than not. scientific american is bound to draw conclusions based on what we do know.
The 'x" =
"we" are our brains. They are finding out that our whole body is our bairn. that meaning, anything that happens to you will affect your thought processing to some degree. Your body is connected to the system around it. we really are not sure where the limits to this connection is.
stop that "brain" processing and we see you stop. The system keeps on living.
The "x" = every time we see the interactions stop, the person stops. every experiment run, to the dismay of animal lovers, reaches a point where the entity stops and we see no more interactions.
with only having that observation (over and over ... a billion times over for humans alone) that when the body dies we have some, a very small number compared to the whole, personal interactions with that person after that point.
what can we conclude from that?
You find solace in the universe loving you or you are going back to it, that's fine. It is even supported by the standard model. Me, I don't need a guy dying, waking up, and flying away. I feel that once you get a person to buy into that you can sell them anything.
so your last paragraph addresses the emotional reason you believe. I see no rational line of logic. You see, people have two solutions. One is emotional and one is logical. There is no perfect balance, but we can clearly understand the problem with way to much of one over the other.
Yes and no (in context of speaking about the believer will occupy heaven) as God defines us as:
"those on the right of Jesus"
"the righteous"
"the wheat"
"the sheep"
"those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified."
Yes: Job 19
I know that my redeemer lives, and that in the end he will stand on the earth.
And after my skin has been destroyed, yet in my flesh I will see God;
I myself will see him with my own eyes—I, and not another.
No: 1 Corinthians 15
we will all be changed— in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet.
For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.
Rev 21
" ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes.
There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.' ”
philosophy gets to make stuff up as needed. "philosophical formal logic doesn't have to put in any real values for "X". Unlike science and engineering. we have to put a value in for "x" more often than not. scientific american is bound to draw conclusions based on what we do know.
The 'x" =
"we" are our brains. They are finding out that our whole body is our bairn. that meaning, anything that happens to you will affect your thought processing to some degree. Your body is connected to the system around it. we really are not sure where the limits to this connection is.
stop that "brain" processing and we see you stop. The system keeps on living.
The "x" = every time we see the interactions stop, the person stops. every experiment run, to the dismay of animal lovers, reaches a point where the entity stops and we see no more interactions.
with only having that observation (over and over ... a billion times over for humans alone) that when the body dies we have some, a very small number compared to the whole, personal interactions with that person after that point.
what can we conclude from that?
You find solace in the universe loving you or you are going back to it, that's fine. It is even supported by the standard model. Me, I don't need a guy dying, waking up, and flying away. I feel that once you get a person to buy into that you can sell them anything.
so your last paragraph addresses the emotional reason you believe. I see no rational line of logic. You see, people have two solutions. One is emotional and one is logical. There is no perfect balance, but we can clearly understand the problem with way to much of one over the other.
I certainly understand what you are saying and appreciate the fact that it is one of the few responses that actually addresses the substance of my OP. However, there and always have been a multitude of world-class philosophers, scientists and other scholars who have rejected the materialistic/naturalistic/atheistic paradigm in favor of the Christian paradigm. It is a mistake, I believe, to think that Christians inevitably turn to Christianity out of some psychological need to find meaning and purpose that anyone should be able to see isn't really there. Many Christians go through precisely the same sort of analysis a sincere atheist does but simply arrive at a different set of convictions.
I have tried to imagine what life would be like if I were an atheist and have observed my friends who are (which happens to be most of my friends). I find it very depressing. When I say, "It seems obvious to me that believing you are a creature of God in a God-created universe with the possibility of eternal life in God's kingdom is far more 'uplifting' and brings far more 'meaning and purpose' to life," I mean this as a simple statement of fact. I don't mean "Everyone should become a Christian because it would bring more meaning and purpose to their lives." One should become a Christian, if at all, because one has concluded it provides the best explanation for the reality we occupy - and if one does, one will discover that life has more meaning and purpose.
Regarding your statement: "every time we see the interactions stop, the person stops. every experiment run, to the dismay of animal lovers, reaches a point where the entity stops and we see no more interactions. with only having that observation (over and over ... a billion times over for humans alone) that when the body dies we have some, a very small number compared to the whole, personal interactions with that person after that point."
I like to think of myself as a reasonably sane and skeptical (even cynical) individual, and all the psychological tests I've ever taken bear this out. (People might be surprised to learn that, in order to be accepted into a Southern Baptist seminary, I was required to perform satisfactorily not only on the Graduate Record Examination but also on a veritable battery of psychological tests.) Nevertheless, I have experienced a number of what are characterized as After-Death Communications. It was an ADC involving my father that really set me on a spiritual quest. Moreover, some of the most vivid ADCs have involved the cats and dogs who have been like children to me. There is a vast body of well-researched ADC literature extending back at least to the earliest days of the Society for Psychical Research. Even if I were not a Christian at all, my own experiences and those of literally millions of other sane and credible people would be sufficient to convince me that the materialistic/naturalistic paradigm is seriously flawed.
I've often wondered this myself. As a child, I guess I was somewhat comforted with the notion of "being with your loved ones in Heaven after you die." As an adult, however, I think would I really want to be hanging out with my parents in the afterlife? One was a believer and the other an unbeliever. If I saw them, or one of them, would they be a parent to me? I'm an adult and don't need to be parented any longer. How would they look to me (at what age)? I would guess if we made it to Heaven, we would no longer have a sin nature where we are self-conscious of this. For example, when you see your loved ones, you have no memory of offences or resentments to impede your relationship as you would on the earth. I'd take more comfort in being just a spirit living in God's presence for eternity, worshiping Him. When I think of having a resurrected body, I get too bogged down with what age I would appear, and silly things like that.
I'm a believer but I struggle with the concept because of being so limited.
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