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Old Testament: Psalm 2:7 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
"I will tell of the decree of the LORD:
He said to me, “You are my son;
today I have begotten you."
This was said to King David, about 1000 BC.
But John 3:16, writing about Jesus, reads "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
“Begotten" translates the Greek word monogenes or first born.
But Jesus was not the ONLY begotten son of God nor the first to be born. John 3:16 is in error.
The Book of Psalms was written long before Jesus’ birth.
rotf
and you are so sure he wasn't speaking about and to the seed in that tunic right ?
and I believe that promised seed in David was David at that point . thus conveying a promise.
Just as the right arm is still the Father before he came as a man and of that same seed in that tunic.. and that right arm is still the right arm of the Father but in a man. and the seed is still Of David. you can't separate it if God didn't separate it in thought .
rotf.. the whole context is of family and descent.
Read the Bible. Christ was BEFORE Abraham. Christ was BEFORE Adam, for what it matters.
Thereafter, every human being is God's begotten son.
Son that went astray and needs to return back to its father.
Addendum.
"god" is pleased with Christ because MAN Jesus returned back to "god" and became "Christ the son"
Do same and "god" will be "pleased" with you too.
OP, you do understand that trying to verbally convey matters of such depth as enlightenment, to lay minds, requires some sort of reasonably understandable language and terms?
Do a simple test. Send help request to say Microsoft. Then sit and ponder over the response. It is well understood by programmers but will it be understood by average PC user? But call a child and it will tell you - you go here, do this, click on that, done. THAT one WILL understand.
rotf
and you are so sure he wasn't speaking about and to the seed in that tunic right ?
and I believe that promised seed in David was David at that point . thus conveying a promise.
Just as the right arm is still the Father before he came as a man and of that same seed in that tunic.. and that right arm is still the right arm of the Father but in a man. and the seed is still Of David. you can't separate it if God didn't separate it in thought .
rotf.. the whole context is of family and descent.
RESPONSE:
Evidently, you are missing the point. It can be shown that so-called "God-breathed" scripture is in error.
John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
God had quite a number of persons that are referred as his sons. Not only one.
And of course John's "inspired" gospel is in error as with having Jesus crucified on the Day of Preparation rather than the Passover. And also omitting any claim of a eucharist at the Last Supper.
And the story of the forgiveness of the woman taken in adultery didn't get added to John 's gospel until the 4th century.
Old Testament: Psalm 2:7 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
"I will tell of the decree of the LORD:
He said to me, “You are my son;
today I have begotten you."
This was said to King David, about 1000 BC.
But John 3:16, writing about Jesus, reads "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
“Begotten" translates the Greek word monogenes or first born.
But Jesus was not the ONLY begotten son of God nor the first to be born. John 3:16 is in error.
The Book of Psalms was written long before Jesus’ birth.
No, John 3:16 is not in error. You don't understand the context of either John 3:16 or Psalm 2.
Scholar F. F. Bruce, citing E. Voegelin, A. Bentzen, and S. Mowinvkel in their respective books notes that it has been suggested that Psalm 2 preserves the text of a coronation liturgy used by the Davidic Dynasty.
Quoting Bruce concerning the suggestions regarding Psalm 2,
''So far as the form is concerned, we recognize here the language which was widely used in enthronement ceremonies throughout the ancient Near East. Thus Voegelin (Order, p.305) quotes parallels from the Pyramid texts: ''This is my son, my firstborn. . . . This is my beloved, with whom I have been satisfied'' (1a-b), and ''This is my beloved, my son; I have given the horizons to him, that he may be powerful over them like Harachte'' (4a-b).''
The Epistle of Hebrews, F. F. Bruce, p.53
Bruce then goes on to say that as is the case of much that was said of the Davidic dynasty, it was believed that what is said in Psalm 2 would be ultimately be fulfilled by the Messiah of David's line.
Acts 13:33 quotes Psalm 2:7 and applies it to Jesus after His resurrection.
Acts 13:33 that God has fulfilled this promise to our children in that He raised up Jesus, as it is also written in the second Psalm, 'YOU ARE MY SON; TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU.' 34] "As for the fact that He raised Him up from the dead, no longer to return to decay, He has spoken in this way: 'I WILL GIVE YOU THE HOLY and SURE blessings OF DAVID.' [NASB]
Luke tells us that Jesus will be called the Son of God (the Most High), and that God will give Him the throne of David.
Luke 1:32 "He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David;
Psalm 2:7 then finds it's ultimate fulfillment in Jesus, when He returns and establishes His Millennial kingdom on the earth.
Psalm 2:7 "I will surely tell of the decree of the LORD: He said to Me, 'You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.
In Daniel 7:13-14 Daniel writes of his vision in which the Ancient of Days (God the Father) gives the kingdoms of the world to the Son of Man.
Dan. 7:13 "I kept looking in the night visions, And behold, with the clouds of heaven One like a Son of Man was coming, And He came up to the Ancient of Days And was presented before Him. 14] "And to Him was given dominion, Glory and a kingdom, That all the peoples, nations and men of every language Might serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion Which will not pass away; And His kingdom is one Which will not be destroyed.
Again therefore, Psalm 2:7 has reference to the fact that the Davidic Messiah, who is Jesus, will be king over the kingdoms of the earth.
On the other hand, John 3:16 refers to Jesus as literally, μονογενής - monogenes; the uniquely born one. Some translations translate it as (only begotten).
Monogenes is defined as;
1. pert. to being the only one of its kind within a specific relationship, one and only, only.
2. pert. to being the only one of its kind or class, unique (in kind).
A Greek- English Lexicon of the New Testament (BDAG), third edition, p.658.
Psalm 2:7 and John 3:16 have reference to Jesus in different ways and John 3:16 does not contradict Psalm 2:7. Jesus is both the unique Son of God in an eternal sense with regard to the unique Father/Son relationship between the First and Second Persons of the Trinity, and also with regard to the fact of His virgin birth into the human race.
As the angel Gabriel told Mary,
Luke 1:35 The angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.
Jesus is the Son in a way which is unique from all others.
Context matters. You cannot properly interpret the Bible without understanding the context.
rotf
and you are so sure he wasn't speaking about and to the seed in that tunic right ?
and I believe that promised seed in David was David at that point . thus conveying a promise.
Just as the right arm is still the Father before he came as a man and of that same seed in that tunic.. and that right arm is still the right arm of the Father but in a man. and the seed is still Of David. you can't separate it if God didn't separate it in thought . rotf.. the whole context is of family and descent.
Wow, you're such a good and nice Christian...This is usually what those of ignorance do instead of discussing it...
No, John 3:16 is not in error. You don't understand the context of either John 3:16 or Psalm 2.
Scholar F. F. Bruce, citing E. Voegelin, A. Bentzen, and S. Mowinvkel in their respective books notes that it has been suggested that Psalm 2 preserves the text of a coronation liturgy used by the Davidic Dynasty.
Quoting Bruce concerning the suggestions regarding Psalm 2,
''So far as the form is concerned, we recognize here the language which was widely used in enthronement ceremonies throughout the ancient Near East. Thus Voegelin (Order, p.305) quotes parallels from the Pyramid texts: ''This is my son, my firstborn. . . . This is my beloved, with whom I have been satisfied'' (1a-b), and ''This is my beloved, my son; I have given the horizons to him, that he may be powerful over them like Harachte'' (4a-b).''
The Epistle of Hebrews, F. F. Bruce, p.53
Bruce then goes on to say that as is the case of much that was said of the Davidic dynasty, it was believed that what is said in Psalm 2 would be ultimately be fulfilled by the Messiah of David's line.
Acts 13:33 quotes Psalm 2:7 and applies it to Jesus after His resurrection.
Acts 13:33 that God has fulfilled this promise to our children in that He raised up Jesus, as it is also written in the second Psalm, 'YOU ARE MY SON; TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU.' 34] "As for the fact that He raised Him up from the dead, no longer to return to decay, He has spoken in this way: 'I WILL GIVE YOU THE HOLY and SURE blessings OF DAVID.' [NASB]
Luke tells us that Jesus will be called the Son of God (the Most High), and that God will give Him the throne of David.
Luke 1:32 "He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David;
Psalm 2:7 then finds it's ultimate fulfillment in Jesus, when He returns and establishes His Millennial kingdom on the earth.
Psalm 2:7 "I will surely tell of the decree of the LORD: He said to Me, 'You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.
In Daniel 7:13-14 Daniel writes of his vision in which the Ancient of Days (God the Father) gives the kingdoms of the world to the Son of Man.
Dan. 7:13 "I kept looking in the night visions, And behold, with the clouds of heaven One like a Son of Man was coming, And He came up to the Ancient of Days And was presented before Him. 14] "And to Him was given dominion, Glory and a kingdom, That all the peoples, nations and men of every language Might serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion Which will not pass away; And His kingdom is one Which will not be destroyed.
Again therefore, Psalm 2:7 has reference to the fact that the Davidic Messiah, who is Jesus, will be king over the kingdoms of the earth.
On the other hand, John 3:16 refers to Jesus as literally, μονογενής - monogenes; the uniquely born one. Some translations translate it as (only begotten).
Monogenes is defined as;
1. pert. to being the only one of its kind within a specific relationship, one and only, only.
2. pert. to being the only one of its kind or class, unique (in kind).
A Greek- English Lexicon of the New Testament (BDAG), third edition, p.658.
Psalm 2:7 and John 3:16 have reference to Jesus in different ways and John 3:16 does not contradict Psalm 2:7. Jesus is both the unique Son of God in an eternal sense with regard to the unique Father/Son relationship between the First and Second Persons of the Trinity, and also with regard to the fact of His virgin birth into the human race.
As the angel Gabriel told Mary,
Luke 1:35 The angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.
Jesus is the Son in a way which is unique from all others.
Context matters. You cannot properly interpret the Bible without understanding the context.
So?...Bruce, Bruce, Bruce!...Do you have anything original?...
Old Testament: Psalm 2:7 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
"I will tell of the decree of the LORD:
He said to me, “You are my son;
today I have begotten you."
This was said to King David, about 1000 BC.
But John 3:16, writing about Jesus, reads "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
“Begotten" translates the Greek word monogenes or first born.
But Jesus was not the ONLY begotten son of God nor the first to be born. John 3:16 is in error.
The Book of Psalms was written long before Jesus’ birth.
The first clue that you are mistaken if all you look at is verse 7, is that he said this to an adult not a zygote in the womb therefore it is a figure of speech akin to adoption*. The day my Father signed the adoption papers for my sister is the day he in that sense of bring about, begot her. Which is what all of human sons and daughters are by faith with the love exception of the One mentioned in John.
*" [SIZE=2]4 [/SIZE]But when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, [SIZE=2]5 [/SIZE]in order to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as children." Gal4 NASB
Some people don't understand the concept of prophecy. David is not mentioned in Psalm 2.
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