Proof of Salvation after Death (Gospel, Revelation, scriptures, Holy Spirit)

[Eusebius]

Proof of salvation after death:

"For even as you once were stubborn toward God, yet now were shown mercy at their
stubbornness, thus these who are now stubborn to this mercy of yours, that now they also
may be shown mercy. For God locks up all together in stubbornness, that He should be
merciful to all" (Romans 11:30-32).

Notice that those stubborn were stubborn almost 2000 years ago. Those who were stubborn
died almost 2000 years ago. God said He would be merciful to those who were stubborn then
JUST AS He is merciful to us in giving us faith and making us vessels of mercy (see Romans 9).

So God still has to be merciful to those who were stubborn. The only way He can do that is
to resurrect those who were stubborn so He can be merciful to them. So there is proof of
salvation after death after all.
Saviour of all Fellowship, universal reconciliation, salvation of all mankind

[Meerkat2]

Originally Posted by Eusebius

Proof of salvation after death:

"For even as you once were stubborn toward God, yet now were shown mercy at their
stubbornness, thus these who are now stubborn to this mercy of yours, that now they also
may be shown mercy. For God locks up all together in stubbornness, that He should be
merciful to all" (Romans 11:30-32).

Notice that those stubborn were stubborn almost 2000 years ago. Those who were stubborn
died almost 2000 years ago. God said He would be merciful to those who were stubborn then
JUST AS He is merciful to us in giving us faith and making us vessels of mercy (see Romans 9).

So God still has to be merciful to those who were stubborn. The only way He can do that is
to resurrect those who were stubborn so He can be merciful to them. So there is proof of
salvation after death after all.
Saviour of all Fellowship, universal reconciliation, salvation of all mankind

[jghorton]

Actually, Salvation and Eternal Life are completed at the same time one is 'Born Again' in God's indwelling Holy Spirit ... having personally accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior. It then continues on through eternity (and certainly beyond this life).

Think of it this way, when a person dies and leaves an inheritance, does one have to wait until they die to receive their inheritance; .... or do they receive it upon the death of the one leaving the inheritance? -- Same with Christ -- He died that we might have Salvation and Eternal Life ... as a result of His death, not ours!

[Verna Perry]

Originally Posted by Eusebius

Proof of salvation after death:

"For even as you once were stubborn toward God, yet now were shown mercy at their
stubbornness, thus these who are now stubborn to this mercy of yours, that now they also
may be shown mercy. For God locks up all together in stubbornness, that He should be
merciful to all" (Romans 11:30-32).

Notice that those stubborn were stubborn almost 2000 years ago. Those who were stubborn
died almost 2000 years ago. God said He would be merciful to those who were stubborn then
JUST AS He is merciful to us in giving us faith and making us vessels of mercy (see Romans 9).

So God still has to be merciful to those who were stubborn. The only way He can do that is
to resurrect those who were stubborn so He can be merciful to them. So there is proof of
salvation after death after all.
Saviour of all Fellowship, universal reconciliation, salvation of all mankind

Nope. Romans doesn't say that at all. Your assumption is exactly that, YOUR assumption...what YOU say it means is what YOU want it to mean...it's what YOU want it to be, not what it truly is......only problem is, is it doesn't jive with the rest of Scripture...it doesn't jive with God's Truth. That's the test...does it contradict the whole of Scripture...? and, unfortunately for you, your mis-understanding of it does. So, you've only proven one thing......... .

[Verna Perry]

Originally Posted by jghorton

Actually, Salvation and Eternal Life are completed at the same time one is 'Born Again' in God's indwelling Holy Spirit ... having personally accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior. It then continues on through eternity (and certainly beyond this life).

Think of it this way, when a person dies and leaves an inheritance, does one have to wait until they die to receive their inheritance; .... or do they receive it upon the death of the one leaving the inheritance? -- Same with Christ -- He died that we might have Salvation and Eternal Life ... as a result of His death, not ours!

Amen.

[Bright Hope for Tomorrow]

Originally Posted by Verna Perry

Nope. Romans doesn't say that at all. Your assumption is exactly that, YOUR assumption...what YOU say it means is what YOU want it to mean...it's what YOU want it to be, not what it truly is......only problem is, is it doesn't jive with the rest of Scripture...it doesn't jive with God's Truth. That's the test...does it contradict the whole of Scripture...? and, unfortunately for you, your mis-understanding of it does. So, you've only proven one thing......... .

So what does your assumption conclude those scriptures mean? What do you want it to mean?

[Horn of ‘83]

This passage simply refers to the guilty state of both Jews and Gentiles. Verna is correct. Your take on this passage is way out of line with the rest of Scripture.

[Eusebius]

Originally Posted by Eusebius

Proof of salvation after death:

"For even as you once were stubborn toward God, yet now were shown mercy at their
stubbornness, thus these who are now stubborn to this mercy of yours, that now they also
may be shown mercy. For God locks up all together in stubbornness, that He should be
merciful to all" (Romans 11:30-32).

Notice that those stubborn were stubborn almost 2000 years ago. Those who were stubborn
died almost 2000 years ago. God said He would be merciful to those who were stubborn then
JUST AS He is merciful to us in giving us faith and making us vessels of mercy (see Romans 9).

So God still has to be merciful to those who were stubborn. The only way He can do that is
to resurrect those who were stubborn so He can be merciful to them. So there is proof of
salvation after death after all.
Saviour of all Fellowship, universal reconciliation, salvation of all mankind

Originally Posted by Verna Perry

Nope. Romans doesn't say that at all. Your assumption is exactly that, YOUR assumption...what YOU say it means is what YOU want it to mean...it's what YOU want it to be, not what it truly is......only problem is, is it doesn't jive with the rest of Scripture...it doesn't jive with God's Truth. That's the test...does it contradict the whole of Scripture...? and, unfortunately for you, your mis-understanding of it does. So, you've only proven one thing......... .

Actually I didn't assume anything. I was merely stating the facts.

God said that all of those Jews who were stubborn now (2000 years ago) will all obtain mercy (obviously they have to be brought back to life to obtain mercy) thousands of years later.

Romans 11:32 as stated here:
"For God locks up all together in stubbornness, that He should be
merciful to all"

does not say that God will be merciful to only those who get born again. It says that all the ones God locks up in stubbornness He will be merciful to. And we know that when one obtains mercy from God that means He saves them.

Also Verna, it is not against the rest of Scripture. Paul even stated in Romans 5:18 and 19 that all mankind who were condemned due to what Adam did are the same all mankind who get justified due to what Christ did.
And it is in line with 1 Corinthians 15:22-28.
And it is in line with 1 Timothy 2:4-6.
And it is in line with 1 Timothy 4:10,11.
And it is in line with Colossians 1:20.
And it is in line with Ephesians 1:10.
And it is in line with Philippians 2:8-11.
And it is in line with Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21.

[ahigherway]

Originally Posted by Eusebius

Actually I didn't assume anything. I was merely stating the facts.

God said that all of those Jews who were stubborn now (2000 years ago) will all obtain mercy (obviously they have to be brought back to life to obtain mercy) thousands of years later.

Romans 11:32 as stated here:
"For God locks up all together in stubbornness, that He should be
merciful to all"

does not say that God will be merciful to only those who get born again. It says that all the ones God locks up in stubbornness He will be merciful to. And we know that when one obtains mercy from God that means He saves them.

Amen!
For the record, here's how God works:
Psalm 107
1O give thanks unto the LORD, for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever.
2Let the redeemed of the LORD say so, whom he hath redeemed from the hand of the enemy;
3And gathered them out of the lands, from the east, and from the west, from the north, and from the south.
4They wandered in the wilderness in a solitary way; they found no city to dwell in.
5Hungry and thirsty, their soul fainted in them.
6Then they cried unto the LORD in their trouble, and he delivered them out of their distresses.
7And he led them forth by the right way, that they might go to a city of habitation.
8Oh that men would praise the LORD for his goodness, and for his wonderful works to the children of men!
9For he satisfieth the longing soul, and filleth the hungry soul with goodness.
10Such as sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, being bound in affliction and iron;
11Because they rebelled against the words of God, and contemned the counsel of the most High:
12Therefore he brought down their heart with labour; they fell down, and there was none to help.
13Then they cried unto the LORD in their trouble, and he saved them out of their distresses.
14He brought them out of darkness and the shadow of death, and brake their bands in sunder.
15Oh that men would praise the LORD for his goodness, and for his wonderful works to the children of men!
16For he hath broken the gates of brass, and cut the bars of iron in sunder.
17Fools because of their transgression, and because of their iniquities, are afflicted.
18Their soul abhorreth all manner of meat; and they draw near unto the gates of death.
19Then they cry unto the LORD in their trouble, and he saveth them out of their distresses.
20He sent his word, and healed them, and delivered them from their destructions.
21Oh that men would praise the LORD for his goodness, and for his wonderful works to the children of men!
22And let them sacrifice the sacrifices of thanksgiving, and declare his works with rejoicing.
23They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters;
24These see the works of the LORD, and his wonders in the deep.
25For he commandeth, and raiseth the stormy wind, which lifteth up the waves thereof.
26They mount up to the heaven, they go down again to the depths: their soul is melted because of trouble.
27They reel to and fro, and stagger like a drunken man, and are at their wit's end.
28Then they cry unto the LORD in their trouble, and he bringeth them out of their distresses.
29He maketh the storm a calm, so that the waves thereof are still.
30Then are they glad because they be quiet; so he bringeth them unto their desired haven.
31Oh that men would praise the LORD for his goodness, and for his wonderful works to the children of men!
32Let them exalt him also in the congregation of the people, and praise him in the assembly of the elders.
33He turneth rivers into a wilderness, and the watersprings into dry ground;
34A fruitful land into barrenness, for the wickedness of them that dwell therein.
35He turneth the wilderness into a standing water, and dry ground into watersprings.
36And there he maketh the hungry to dwell, that they may prepare a city for habitation;
37And sow the fields, and plant vineyards, which may yield fruits of increase.
38He blesseth them also, so that they are multiplied greatly; and suffereth not their cattle to decrease.
39Again, they are minished and brought low through oppression, affliction, and sorrow.
40He poureth contempt upon princes, and causeth them to wander in the wilderness, where there is no way.
41Yet setteth he the poor on high from affliction, and maketh him families like a flock.
42The righteous shall see it, and rejoice: and all iniquity shall stop her mouth.
43Whoso is wise, and will observe these things, even they shall understand the lovingkindness of the LORD.


Blessings and praise to the Potter!!
Brian

[DRob4JC]

Not true.

Those verses are talking about the nation of Israel collectively (see v. 25).

Rom. 11:25-26 - For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery--so that you will not be wise in your own estimation--that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; 26 and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written, "THE DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION, HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB."

Rom. 11:28-32 - From the standpoint of the gospel they (Gentiles) are enemies for your (Israel's) sake, but from the standpoint of God's choice they (Gentiles) are beloved for the sake of the fathers; 29 for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For just as you (Israel) once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their (Gentile) disobedience, 31 so these also now have been disobedient, that because of the mercy shown to you (Israel) they (Gentiles) also may now be shown mercy. 32 For God has shut up all (Jews & Gentiles) in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.

(Parenthesis) are mine.