Why weren't the 12 disciples waiting at the tomb for Jesus to rise? (crucifixion, traditions)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I had always wondered why not one disciple was waiting around the tomb for the resurrection when they were supposed to be all knowing. Like so many things it's right there in the book waiting for us to actually READ what it says, rather than what some Pastor elects to give us....
Jesus Foretells His Death a Third Time
31 And taking the twelve, he said to them, "See, we are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written about the Son of Man by the prophets will be accomplished. 32 For he will be delivered over to the Gentiles and will be mocked and shamefully treated and spit upon. 33 And after flogging him, they will kill him, and on the THIRD DAY he will rise." 34 But they understood none of these things. This saying was HIDDEN from them, and they did not grasp what was said.
Jesus plainly told them what was going to happen but out of necessity blocked it out of their brains. So they got to spend some time huddling at the condo in fear.......they would all have gone ballistic if they thought their beloved Messiah was going to be killed........
Strangely enough Jews til this day think Jesus was a failure and couldn't be God because He allowed Himself to be killed.......
Note to self: JESUS IS ALWAYS LARGE AND IN CHARGE......He had all this planned before HE put the universe together
I tried to post this on another website, pathos I think and couldn't and I didn't want to waste it so here:
You have to question the evidence for the apostles themselves.
Apologists say all the apostles died for their faith. There is no evidence of this. We have zero evidence any of the apostles even existed. Josephus only mentions "James, brother of Jesus who is called the Christ" and even then historians believe "who is called the Christ" was a later interpolation. So historically all we have is someone named James, brother of someone named Jesus, and "Yeshua" (Jesus) was a name so common back then it was as common as "John" is today. So this could have been any two brothers named James and Yeshua. That's all we have historically. The rest is out of the Bible which has been rewritten and rewritten how many times to bring it in like with the theology of Constantine's time?
I'm not returning. Don't sweat it. I just didn't want to waste my comment since it pertains to this topic.
I tried to post this on another website, pathos I think and couldn't and I didn't want to waste it so here:
You have to question the evidence for the apostles themselves.
Apologists say all the apostles died for their faith. There is no evidence of this. We have zero evidence any of the apostles even existed. Josephus only mentions "James, brother of Jesus who is called the Christ" and even then historians believe "who is called the Christ" was a later interpolation. So historically all we have is someone named James, brother of someone named Jesus, and "Yeshua" (Jesus) was a name so common back then it was as common as "John" is today. So this could have been any two brothers named James and Yeshua. That's all we have historically. The rest is out of the Bible which has been rewritten and rewritten how many times to bring it in like with the theology of Constantine's time?
I'm not returning. Don't sweat it. I just didn't want to waste my comment since it pertains to this topic.
Well, first of all, apologists (there may be exceptions) don't say that ALL the apostles died for their faith but acknowledge that the apostle John died of old age around the beginning of the second century. We do know that some of the apostles were martyred. From Acts 12:2 we know that James the brother of John was the first apostle to be martyred. We know that both Peter and Paul were martyred. And there are traditions (and traditions often have a core of truth to them) that other apostles were martyred. Thomas for example was martyred in India, in the Mylapore region. There are three different accounts concerning his death, and the details vary, but all three state that he died from a spear thrust. And the evidence is strong that Thomas made it to India in his missionary journeys.
Well, as it turns out, the OP didn't even say anything about the apostles dying which makes the subject of their martyrdom off topic.
Last edited by Michael Way; 02-08-2018 at 01:07 PM..
I had always wondered why not one disciple was waiting around the tomb for the resurrection when they were supposed to be all knowing. Like so many things it's right there in the book waiting for us to actually READ what it says, rather than what some Pastor elects to give us....
Jesus Foretells His Death a Third Time
31 And taking the twelve, he said to them, "See, we are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written about the Son of Man by the prophets will be accomplished. 32 For he will be delivered over to the Gentiles and will be mocked and shamefully treated and spit upon. 33 And after flogging him, they will kill him, and on the THIRD DAY he will rise." 34 But they understood none of these things. This saying was HIDDEN from them, and they did not grasp what was said.
Jesus plainly told them what was going to happen but out of necessity blocked it out of their brains. So they got to spend some time huddling at the condo in fear.......they would all have gone ballistic if they thought their beloved Messiah was going to be killed........
Strangely enough Jews til this day think Jesus was a failure and couldn't be God because He allowed Himself to be killed.......
Note to self: JESUS IS ALWAYS LARGE AND IN CHARGE......He had all this planned before HE put the universe together
The disciples were not all knowing.
They were not there because they either did not believe Him, or could not grasp the concept of coming back to life after death - which is understandable since it had never been done.
They were not there because they either did not believe Him, or could not grasp the concept of coming back to life after death - which is understandable since it had never been done.
Drob......good point clearly they only knew what Jesus wanted them to know.......
The crucifixion/trial& ressurection accounts are myths. There was no tomb. Crucified seditionists were left to rot, not taken down and hastily buried before the sabbath.
Too msny holes and gaps in the gospel accou t to be accurate
The 11 OR 12 apostles were not waiting because said place and event was not real.
Think in terms of a spiritual ressurection , not a bodily on.
The crucifixion/trial& ressurection accounts are myths. There was no tomb. Crucified seditionists were left to rot, not taken down and hastily buried before the sabbath.
Too msny holes and gaps in the gospel accou t to be accurate
The 11 OR 12 apostles were not waiting because said place and event was not real.
Think in terms of a spiritual ressurection , not a bodily on.
and if all this works for you and gives you peace, healing, and hope for both this world and perhaps for the next (if it exists at all) then more power to you and may God (or Whatever and Whomever) SINCERELY bless and keep you. FWI and IMHO, am not sure that a "spiritual" resurrection is that much easier to prove than a "bodily" one but different strokes for different folks and whatever floats your metaphysical or philosophical boat.
OTOH, (and as you may already know) the question of IF Jesus died and did NOT rise again---either as a myth or metaphor, some kind of misunderstanding or just plain lies foisted upon the gullible by a bunch of religious con-men for nefarious purposes---was addressed very directly by the earliest "Christians".
here's how Paul asked and answered that question: "IF Christ has NOT been raised, our preaching is WORTHLESS and SO IS YOUR FAITH....(and) we are exposed as FALSE witnesses about God....if Christ is not raised your faith is FUTILE and you are STILL in your sins. then those who have fallen asleep in Christ have PERISHED. if our hope in Christ is for this life alone, we are to be pitied more than all men." (1 Cor. 12-18).
sounds like Paul understood fully the implications of and the jeopardy for those believing in a Christ Who either didn't die or died and STAYED dead and put all his theological cards on the table on this very important topic---for anyone then or now considering believing in and following that wild and crazy carpenter from Galilee and His supposed "mission from God".
thankfully, no one can force you or me or anyone else as what to believe and what to do with their beliefs (not even "God")---though think we all can gain serious "street cred" if those beliefs whatever they may be actually lead us to CONSISTENTLY put the needs of others above ourselves (even those we don't like or who don't like us and most especially those who are so apparently foolish and bigoted as to believe things that we don't) by acts of love, forgiveness, and humility---regardless of whatever "ism" and "ology" secular or religious that inspires or compels us to do them.
perhaps those of us are think ourselves "enlightened" or "progressive' (either as theists or atheists) might meditate that just MAYBE we are all ultimately still closer than we like to admit to all those "blind men" touching the immense dark unknown of the "elephant" and coming away with distinctly different "truths" about the nature of that which they touched and maybe all should come away from their separate and several encounters with the "god"/totality/ultimate reality with both humility about their own understanding of the "truth" and a charitable and tolerant consideration of someone else's understanding of truth in the matter---supposedly summed up rather neatly for ALL sides by that same aforementioned wild and crazy carpenter as "do unto others as you would have them do unto you".
peace to you on your journey.
Last edited by georgeinbandonoregon; 02-09-2018 at 03:16 PM..
I had always wondered why not one disciple was waiting around the tomb for the resurrection when they were supposed to be all knowing. Like so many things it's right there in the book waiting for us to actually READ what it says, rather than what some Pastor elects to give us....
Like you said, answer is explained in your own quote:
"they understood none of these things. This saying was HIDDEN from them, and they did not grasp what was said"
Before the universe was created Adam was the first plan A but he failed , Jesus is plan B which came after Adam failed , where Jesus did not fail .... The disciple were not at the tomb were Jesus has laid because there was two guards at the tomb , and the disciple did not want to end up like Jesus as the disciples were in hiding ...... like Peter lied three times that He did not know Jesus , and only disciple John came out to the cross when Jesus was crucified
The crucifixion/trial& ressurection accounts are myths. There was no tomb. Crucified seditionists were left to rot, not taken down and hastily buried before the sabbath.
Too msny holes and gaps in the gospel accou t to be accurate
The 11 OR 12 apostles were not waiting because said place and event was not real.
Think in terms of a spiritual ressurection , not a bodily on.
I think the resurrection referred to the ideas of the early Christian movement spreading even when the leaders were being persecuted and killed in an attempt to stop it.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
