Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I wish the moderators were more on top on this forum. Many who post here are not Christian. They use the “Christian” tag to worm their way in so they can confront, argue and muddle the faith. Their belief has nothing to do with Jesus. They only use Him as a talisman or for straw man arguments. It is wrong, disrespectful, and disgraceful.
If you don't like the way this forum works, you should go elsewhere. Nobody has to be a Christian to post here, and anybody that says they follow Jesus will be accepted as a Christian. It's as simple as that.
You may think I am deceived, but you would be wrong. Am I angry when people teach that God is like a diabolical monster - that God is like Satan? Yes, that does make me angry. You do it because you only deal in fear, not in love. Whoever fears is not made perfect in love. I do not expect you to change. You may or may not come to a knowledge of the truth in this world, but I'm not worried that God will send you to eternal torment for distorting his image. However, I do think you will be surprised when you realize that is what you are doing.
It was when I realized that justice and love ARE compatible. What is NOT compatible with love is punishment or consequences of bad decisions without the possibility of change.
It was when I realized that justice and love ARE compatible. What is NOT compatible with love is punishment or consequences of bad decisions without the possibility of change.
Thanks for sharing, Nateswift.
What comes out anytime I want to discuss Universalism, is that to a fundamentalist bible believer, one MUST believe that ETERNAL TORMENT will be the overwhelming fate of the vast majority of humanity in order to be "in line" with their perception of truth, or to "be saved". I used to believe this myself, but it made me sick, very mentally sick and I did not want to share it with anyone. In fact, I saw no need to share it with anyone because even when I believed in ET, I still understood from reading the scriptures that God is sovereign and will not lose any whom he has given to Jesus - so I found it to be a futile thing to share the "bad news". I don't know why there are people who can believe such a thing and be happy as a lark. It baffles me. Do you have any idea why some people can embrace such a doctrine without having a mental breakdown?
My story is i ended up in the US, my wife was away at sea a lot so i spent a lot of time reading on the internet , i stumbled across the ministry of Ray Smith and Gary Sigler and couldn't deny what i was reading, but i have grown out of much of what i came to believe through the so called bible believing churches, mainly by seeing and understanding the scriptures differently to them and realizing that most of what i believed i did not know why other than it tickled my ears for where i was at that time, and none of it brought about deep change within, it was all surface belief stuff based on what i believed is right and what i i thought the scriptures taught . That is 1 thing if i have i do have a gripe with universalists that were former ET'ers, is, if they were wrong on ET what else were they wrong about, that was my line of thought anyway.
The fellowship that i was involved with back in blighty after leaving the border line cult i was involved in, was very big on the love of God, but it was not universalist. Although i don't go there i have met members of the fellowship when i'm back home, none of them are against me because i believe none are lost. I guess that was partly due to although believing in ET i can never remember it ever being taught. I honestly believe too, that in believing in ET iN a zealous way hardens you which causes you to play down the love of God which is the core of the message of the good news. Et'ers are not even bright enough to say to themselves, lets reach them with the love of God and introduce them to eternal hell once we have their asses on pews.
yes, this is what I see too.
Just because someone believes something does not make it true.
As well as not believing in eternal torment I don’t believe that there is a spiritual devil and his angels aka Satan and spiritual demonic spirits seeking to lead humanity astray. I believe it is our own imagination and collective heart which leads us astray by reading things that are allegorical and believing that they are true.
Just because someone believes something does not make it true.
As well as not believing in eternal torment I don’t believe that there is a spiritual devil and his angels aka Satan and spiritual demonic spirits seeking to lead humanity astray. I believe it is our own imagination and collective heart which leads us astray by reading things that are allegorical and believing that they are true.
What about exorcisms then? And demonically assisted magicians?
What about exorcisms then? And demonically assisted magicians?
maybe this is for another thread. I believe there is a lot of allegory and symbolism in the scriptures and people tend to believe what they are told by their teachers, humans have powerful minds which are creative and have untapped potential.
I do believe there is flesh and spirit, but the spirit is not divided into “good” spirit and “bad” spirit
Humans are flesh with the breath of God (spirit) but God does not create each individually, there are physical and spiritual laws which are all bound together and subject to evolving.
maybe this is for another thread. I believe there is a lot of allegory and symbolism in the scriptures and people tend to believe what they are told by their teachers, humans have powerful minds which are creative and have untapped potential.
I do believe there is flesh and spirit, but the spirit is not divided into “good” spirit and “bad” spirit
Humans are flesh with the breath of God (spirit) but God does not create each individually, there are physical and spiritual laws which are all bound together and subject to evolving.
I don't believe in a "personal" devil, but I do believe there is evil in the world - plenty of it. I believe it is spiritual, so I don't have a problem calling it demonic. It is in our earthly nature (flesh) and our minds and can then get into our hearts. How else can we explain the heinous violence that happens in this world. What makes a person decide to be a serial killer. And for that matter, what makes nations and those in power build bombs and consider nuclear war, germ warfare, etc. What made the white European settlers decide to drive the natives from their land and do all they could to kill them? How did men come to a decision that it would be okay to go to Africa and bring people from there to America to be slaves? Why do people not want to cooperate and do what is best for all and share all things? What is it in humans that causes greed and the desire to take more than they need? What causes dirty old men to be child molesters? What causes men to desire to put women in subjection to themselves? It is, in my opinion a spiritual disease that plagues mankind. There is only one cure - knowing and loving God. To love God is to love goodness.
It was when I realized that justice and love ARE compatible. What is NOT compatible with love is punishment or consequences of bad decisions without the possibility of change.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainMusic
Thanks for sharing, Nateswift.
What comes out anytime I want to discuss Universalism, is that to a fundamentalist bible believer, one MUST believe that ETERNAL TORMENT will be the overwhelming fate of the vast majority of humanity in order to be "in line" with their perception of truth, or to "be saved". I used to believe this myself, but it made me sick, very mentally sick and I did not want to share it with anyone. In fact, I saw no need to share it with anyone because even when I believed in ET, I still understood from reading the scriptures that God is sovereign and will not lose any whom he has given to Jesus - so I found it to be a futile thing to share the "bad news". I don't know why there are people who can believe such a thing and be happy as a lark. It baffles me. Do you have any idea why some people can embrace such a doctrine without having a mental breakdown?
I see two ways of handing it: what seems to me to be an element of the Stockholm syndrome where a vicious superior is loved FOR the power he holds and they really don't believe God loves everyone as Jesus claimed, because THEY don't. They are just happy to be one of the favored ones whatever they have to do to get that favor. The other way is just to mindlessly parrot doctrine and never actually think about the contradiction even when it is pointed out; it's not dogma so it CAN'T be true, trust out theologians to have it right.
It baffles me. Do you have any idea why some people can embrace such a doctrine without having a mental breakdown?
They've numbed themselves into not considering what the inner voice is telling them.Any voice that challenges their belief about eternal torment, to them is the devil and the devil attempting them to doubt what they think is in the bible. What baffles me with the likes of Finn Jarber, jimmiej scgraham, baptistfundie and a few others who are stalwarts of the belief of its existence on here, is that they are not at the very least 24 hours on their knees pleading to the bearded man up in the skies for family, friends and the world, if it's as horrifying as they believe it to be. The truth is they do not give a you know what about those they think are going to eternal hell, they are more concerned with defending its existence than keeping family, friends and the world out of it.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
