Has anyone read "A Case For Christ" and wants to talk? (crucifixion, Gospels)
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I'm an atheist. Except I don't think I am anymore. The last few months I've been feeling something calling in my heart. Ive done a lot of soul searching and also tried to ignore this nagging feeling of something (someone?) Calling to me. It has not gone away or abated. Its gotten stronger.
This week I ordered a KJV study Bible and The Case for Christ.
I am reading and I trying to reconcile my science analytical brain with the information being presented. I am learning a lot and a lot makes sense. I was hoping someone here would like to talk about it as I have noone to talk to.
But so far the thing that makes the most sense of all is...if we are willing to accept all the other archaic writing as historical fact, at least in the broadest of terms, writings that were sometimes written hundreds of years after the fact, why are we so unwilling to believe the gospels are truth having been written 40/50/60 years after the life of Christ.
I'm an atheist. Except I don't think I am anymore. The last few months I've been feeling something calling in my heart. Ive done a lot of soul searching and also tried to ignore this nagging feeling of something (someone?) Calling to me. It has not gone away or abated. Its gotten stronger.
This week I ordered a KJV study Bible and The Case for Christ.
I am reading and I trying to reconcile my science analytical brain with the information being presented. I am learning a lot and a lot makes sense. I was hoping someone here would like to talk about it as I have noone to talk to.
But so far the thing that makes the most sense of all is...if we are willing to accept all the other archaic writing as historical fact, at least in the broadest of terms, writings that were sometimes written hundreds of years after the fact, why are we so unwilling to believe the gospels are truth having been written 40/50/60 years after the life of Christ.
Let's talk. First, let me ask you concerning your world view. Since you are not sure if you are an atheist anymore can I assume that you are open to the possibility of the existence of the supernatural and of miracles?
I'm an atheist. Except I don't think I am anymore. The last few months I've been feeling something calling in my heart. Ive done a lot of soul searching and also tried to ignore this nagging feeling of something (someone?) Calling to me. It has not gone away or abated. Its gotten stronger.
This week I ordered a KJV study Bible and The Case for Christ.
I am reading and I trying to reconcile my science analytical brain with the information being presented. I am learning a lot and a lot makes sense. I was hoping someone here would like to talk about it as I have noone to talk to.
But so far the thing that makes the most sense of all is...if we are willing to accept all the other archaic writing as historical fact, at least in the broadest of terms, writings that were sometimes written hundreds of years after the fact, why are we so unwilling to believe the gospels are truth having been written 40/50/60 years after the life of Christ.
Jesus said, search and you will find, knock and it shall be opened unto you. I see from your post you have been searching and knocking, and now you are finding.
None of us know what to believe! That was my problem when I accepted Christ, I was being taught but I wondered is this the truth?
The promise from God for those who search and knock is that He will show you the truth, as plain as the nose on your face, IF, you keep searching and keep knocking.
The teacher is the 3rd member of the Triune God, the Holy Spirit, the scripture says that He will teach you all things, He will confirm the truth to you when you read and hear it.
But you have started a good thing in searching and knocking, keep searching and knocking and see that what I tell you is not the truth!
If man will show interest in learning the truth, God will turn the world upside down, if necessary to give you that truth!
Let's talk. First, let me ask you concerning your world view. Since you are not sure if you are an atheist anymore can I assume that you are open to the possibility of the existence of the supernatural and of miracles?
I've always been open to the possibility of the supernatural just not necessarily from a religious perspective. Maybe haunting as a remnant of energy, energy is neither created nor destroyed so when you die it has to go somewhere.
I attended church often a child, often by myself. I went to a Baptist church. I was never baptized but I participated and attended. Nothing was ever really explained to me. If was all faith. And while yes, believing the gospel and the Bible and the whole thing is based on faith, so is believing any historical information.
My problem has always been, and im just starting out, it has always felt as though God has abandoned us. Where are the miracles and the prophets and the evidence now. But the way I've been feeling in my heart is that there is something I just didn't know it. Like something reaching out to me. Calling to me. Working through me I guess.
I dont suppose that I have some divine mission or that im Joan of arc or the maid of Kent or Moses. Just the Holy Spirit is in treating me to look and find. And its not going away
I've always been open to the possibility of the supernatural just not necessarily from a religious perspective. Maybe haunting as a remnant of energy, energy is neither created nor destroyed so when you die it has to go somewhere.
I attended church often a child, often by myself. I went to a Baptist church. I was never baptized but I participated and attended. Nothing was ever really explained to me. If was all faith. And while yes, believing the gospel and the Bible and the whole thing is based on faith, so is believing any historical information.
My problem has always been, and im just starting out, it has always felt as though God has abandoned us. Where are the miracles and the prophets and the evidence now. But the way I've been feeling in my heart is that there is something I just didn't know it. Like something reaching out to me. Calling to me. Working through me I guess.
I dont suppose that I have some divine mission or that im Joan of arc or the maid of Kent or Moses. Just the Holy Spirit is in treating me to look and find. And its not going away
I'm writing this first sentence last to say that I didn't intend to make this post as long as it is, but it just worked out that way, and I hope it makes some sense to you.
It's good that you have that feeling that something is reaching out to you and that you aren't suppressing it but are receptive to it.
Another word for faith is trust. And regardless of which word you use it need not mean belief without evidence. While there is no scientific 'proof' for the existence of God, there is historical evidence for God's interaction with man in human history. And if you are willing to trust or have faith in ancient historical information, I would like to focus your attention on the historicity of Jesus and what the New Testament says about him. That a historical Jesus existed is almost universally recognized by scholars in the field of Jesus studies as is the fact that Jesus' followers believed that they saw Jesus alive again after he had been crucified.
We have the testimony of people who believed that they saw the risen Jesus. And if the naturalistic reasons why they believed that they saw the risen Jesus can be ruled out, I submit that what remains is that they actually did see Jesus after his resurrection.
This is why I asked you if you were open to the existence of the supernatural and the possibility of miracles. A person with a strong anti-supernatural worldview likely will not believe any amount of evidence that miracles can occur. But someone who is open to the possible existence of the supernatural and of miracles may well be convinced that the evidence for Jesus' resurrection (a miracle) is valid.
As I said, the naturalistic explanations concerning why Jesus' followers believed they saw the risen Jesus don't work. For instance, there's the claim that Jesus didn't really die on the cross. But the Romans were experts in execution by crucifixion. They could tell when a person was dead. In fact, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus' side with a spear causing blood and water to come out thus confirming that he was dead.
Another attempted naturalistic explanation is to explain the empty tomb by claiming that the disciples stole Jesus' body. . .the conspiracy theory. That assumes that Jesus' disciples stole the body so that they could claim that Jesus had been resurrected. But they had no reason to do so even if they had had the opportunity to do so. When Jesus was crucified all the hopes of the disciples that Jesus had been the Messiah that Israel was waiting for to deliver them from Rome vanished. He was a failed Messiah. The disciples were hiding in fear of their lives from the Jewish leaders. The last thing on their minds would have been trying to start a new religion based on Jesus having been resurrected. Yet very shortly thereafter they became courageous men proclaiming the risen Jesus.
But what if tomb robbers who had not been disciples of Jesus stole the body? The empty tomb in and of itself would not have convinced anyone that Jesus had risen, and if tomb robbers had stolen the body, that doesn't explain why the disciples believed they saw the risen Jesus on different occasions over a forty day period.
What about the hallucination theory? First of all most psychologists don't believe that mass hallucinations are possible since hallucinations are internally generated events in the mind of the person having the hallucination and can't be shared by others. Now, there are cases of mass hysteria as well as instances in which groups of people believed they saw the virgin Mary. But there's always some external factor involved to cause that. There was an experiment done in which subjects were induced to see something by exposing them to a blinking light but again, that was externally produced.
The mind frame of the disciples after the death of Jesus was not conducive to any of the disciples having an hallucination that they had seen Jesus alive again. While the Jews who believed in resurrection (not all did) believed in a general resurrection at the end of time, no one believed that one individual would be resurrected before that time. The disciples didn't even understand when Jesus told them that he would die and be raised again after three days. And again, for all of the disciples to have seen the exact same thing and on different occasions just doesn't fit with how hallucinations work.
Then there's the theory that Jesus had a long lost twin brother who showed up after Jesus had died and everyone thought he was Jesus. Uh. . . no. People would have found out soon enough that he wasn't Jesus.
The naturalistic explanations just don't work as reasons why the disciples of Jesus believed that they saw him alive after having been killed. And I argue that for a person who has a supernatural world view, the evidence provided by the attestation of the disciples who were not second or third generation believers, but who were eyewitnesses of the risen Jesus is sufficient evidence for the resurrection of Jesus, and therefore of the existence of God.
I'm an atheist. Except I don't think I am anymore. The last few months I've been feeling something calling in my heart. Ive done a lot of soul searching and also tried to ignore this nagging feeling of something (someone?) Calling to me. It has not gone away or abated. Its gotten stronger.
This week I ordered a KJV study Bible and The Case for Christ.
I am reading and I trying to reconcile my science analytical brain with the information being presented. I am learning a lot and a lot makes sense. I was hoping someone here would like to talk about it as I have noone to talk to.
But so far the thing that makes the most sense of all is...if we are willing to accept all the other archaic writing as historical fact, at least in the broadest of terms, writings that were sometimes written hundreds of years after the fact, why are we so unwilling to believe the gospels are truth having been written 40/50/60 years after the life of Christ.
I tell you what does it for me maam, is fulfilled prophecy. Jesus gave the signs of his receiving Kingship, which would usher this world into it's last days, take a gander at those prophecies found in (Luke 21:10, 11) 10 Then he said to them: “Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. 11 There will be great earthquakes, and in one place after another food shortages and pestilences; and there will be fearful sights and from heaven great signs.
Right now we are in a pandemic (pestilences). Many people who do not believe in God see these things going on in the world.
Note this passage as well: (2 Timothy 3:1-5) . . .know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, 3 having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, 4 betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, 5 having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power; and from these turn away.
Just like reading a newspaper. We believe we are very close to the return of Christ maam. Now is the time to recognize Jehovah's people and go with them Zech 8:23
I tell you what does it for me maam, is fulfilled prophecy. Jesus gave the signs of his receiving Kingship, which would usher this world into it's last days, take a gander at those prophecies found in (Luke 21:10, 11) 10 Then he said to them: “Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. 11 There will be great earthquakes, and in one place after another food shortages and pestilences; and there will be fearful sights and from heaven great signs.
Right now we are in a pandemic (pestilences). Many people who do not believe in God see these things going on in the world.
Note this passage as well: (2 Timothy 3:1-5) . . .know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, 3 having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, 4 betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, 5 having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power; and from these turn away.
Just like reading a newspaper. We believe we are very close to the return of Christ maam. Now is the time to recognize Jehovah's people and go with them Zech 8:23
Religious fanaticism - there have always been everything you mentioned, nothing new under the sun?
Do you have to start an argument? How is this helping the OP who is not sure she is an atheist any longer and wanted to talk about it?
Although I'm not sure why she hasn't come back to the thread.
I suspect it is known on the street as "bait," Michael.
I'm an atheist. Except I don't think I am anymore. The last few months I've been feeling something calling in my heart. Ive done a lot of soul searching and also tried to ignore this nagging feeling of something (someone?) Calling to me. It has not gone away or abated. Its gotten stronger.
This week I ordered a KJV study Bible and The Case for Christ.
I am reading and I trying to reconcile my science analytical brain with the information being presented. I am learning a lot and a lot makes sense. I was hoping someone here would like to talk about it as I have noone to talk to.
But so far the thing that makes the most sense of all is...if we are willing to accept all the other archaic writing as historical fact, at least in the broadest of terms, writings that were sometimes written hundreds of years after the fact, why are we so unwilling to believe the gospels are truth having been written 40/50/60 years after the life of Christ.
As I've read your posts and exchanges with MWay, I keep coming back to your OP and reflecting on how familiar this sounds with others I've encountered (in 30-40-years of 'street' ministry), who 'came to Christ' later in life. What you are describing is the movement of the Holy Spirit drawing you to God through Jesus Christ. The question is, Will you listen and respond this time ... or rationalize it away (aka: "rational lies"). Keep in mind that every time we say "no" or "not now" in our Spirit, we render ourselves a little less able to hear God the next time He calls. [There are many here on CD who will encourage the latter, but, don't listen to them].
If you want to further reconcile your science and analytical brain with Scripture, take a look at the content on ucanknowthetruth.com -- The world has largely suppressed available Bible/Christ-supporting empirical evidence in the areas of archaeology, literature, prophecy, science and others. You can check it out for free by drilling down into each of the 10 verifiable areas of proof.
If you would like to pursue this further, please send a DM on this board. - In Christ, John
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