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Illogical, irrational nonsense!!! Either Jesus is the Savior and HE ALONE has saved us all or we are "Co-Saviors" with Jesus, one or the other.
hmmm I don't think it is one or the other brother. We are Co-Saviors with Jesus and yet it is Jesus who saved us. Jesus is the head of the body of Christ and the head cannot say to the feet I have no need of thee.
The way I see it goes like this.
God the Father is the ultimate saviour, yet God did this saving via Christ Jesus and just like the Father sent Jesus for our salvation Jesus sends us as his body for the salvation of all. When the feet catch up with the head what a day of revival that will be.
Bottom line brother our heavenly Father is the saviour of all, whether he uses intermediates or not it is still in him, by him and through him we are saved.
hmmm I don't think it is one or the other brother. We are Co-Saviors with Jesus and yet it is Jesus who saved us. Jesus is the head of the body of Christ and the head cannot say to the feet I have no need of thee.
The way I see it goes like this.
God the Father is the ultimate saviour, yet God did this saving via Christ Jesus and just like the Father sent Jesus for our salvation Jesus sends us as his body for the salvation of all. When the feet catch up with the head what a day of revival that will be.
Bottom line brother our heavenly Father is the saviour of all, whether he uses intermediates or not it is still in him, by him and through him we are saved.
We don't really disagree, brother, since God is ALL, including us. It is a spiritual evolution and maturation process, not an instant creation, so getting the feet to catch up to the head may still take a while.
So…are the members of my church all forgiven every Sunday morning when the pastor says we are?
I don’t think so, but I welcome others’ views.
you're thinking right! NO imperfect human except for those Apostles, by means of Jehovah God's HS through Jesus, could forgive others. but these men were servants of the Most High God, and TRUE followers of Jesus. as well as they walked in the ways of Jesus meaning, they didn't live as they rest of the world did, neither did Jesus ,(John 17:16-18 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 17*Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth. As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world).
NO pastor today, can forgive anyone of their sins. ONLY Jehovah God through Christ Jesus. meaning just like sacrificial animals were used in order prayers to be heard by Jehovah, (Heb. 9:13,14). it's through Jesus blood, that forgiveness and prayers are taken to his Father ,(John 14:13,14 And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask anything in My name, I will do it). see also (John 15:16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you). peace
How is it that you understand this and yet maintain what we do or do not believe is what determines whether or not we are saved. Either Jesus saved us alone or we have to accept some of the credit with Him. It is one or the other.
Because Ephesians 2:8-9 states that we are saved by grace through faith, but the whole thing is a gift from God. God elects us to salvation, and he gifts us with the faith to believe. That's what Scripture actually says. It's entirely of him. If one believes that we have to add to the work Jesus did, then Jesus is of no use to them.
What about a prodigal son ?
We can remove oneself and loose out on one's salvation - Hebrews 6:4-6; Hebrews 10:26; Matthew 12:32.
Paul was born again into Jesus but Paul knew what was important at 1st Corinthians 9:27 so as Not be a castaway.
The warning is given at 1st Corinthians 10:12_____________________________________________ _____________
Did the prodigal son lose his Father? Or was the man his father all along?
It's clear that no, he did not lose his standing. When he came home the Father RAN to him. Just the same, if we are children of God, we won't be tossed aside because of some stupid silly sin. Jesus is bigger than our sin.
Because Ephesians 2:8-9 states that we are saved by grace through faith, but the whole thing is a gift from God. God elects us to salvation, and he gifts us with the faith to believe. That's what Scripture actually says. It's entirely of him. If one believes that we have to add to the work Jesus did, then Jesus is of no use to them.
BF it salvation has NOTHING to do with us, it is Christ indwelling us that saves us. it is no longer I that liveth but Christ that liveth in me, yet I live.
We don't really disagree, brother, since God is ALL, including us. It is a spiritual evolution and maturation process, not an instant creation, so getting the feet to catch up to the head may still take a while.
yup its been 2000 years and people still do not understand to live is Christ and to die is gain.
Here's a question for the posters who answered "no" to the question posed in this thread:
As a Catholic, when I confess my sins in front of the Priest in the confessional (leaving aside the question of whether or not the Priest can forgive my sins), does God forgive me?
Here's a question for the posters who answered "no" to the question posed in this thread:
As a Catholic, when I confess my sins in front of the Priest in the confessional (leaving aside the question of whether or not the Priest can forgive my sins), does God forgive me?
Are you asking God? Or a man?
What happens if you go direct to Jesus? Would he forgive you? If so, why do you need the priest?
What happens if you go direct to Jesus? Would he forgive you? If so, why do you need the priest?
The reason I was asking is because the promise of Scripture is that if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins (1 John 1:9). Therefore, whether we confess our sins out loud in front of a Priest or confess them silently to God, are we not still forgiven?
But at any rate, ultimately we're confessing our sins to God. As you know, every sacramental confession is completed with the Act of Contrition on the part of the penitent..."O my God, I am heartily sorry for having offended Thee..."
We absolutely can confess our sins directly to Jesus, and many of us do all the time. We don't necessarily need the Priest if we are truly sorry for our sins and confess to Christ. However, perfect contrition is a gift from God that not everyone is blessed with. We are not always truly sorry for our sins. Oftentimes we fail to see the gravity of our sins. Sometimes we're just sorry we got caught. Even so, God in His mercy has offered us a means of forgiveness.
The ability to confess our sins sacramentally to a Priest is a great gift Christ has given to us in which we can actually hear the words of absolution with our own ears. Rather than confessing our sins silently and getting nothing but silence in return, we have objective assurance of forgiveness and absolution. It's also an excellent way to grow in humility, which is the most important and the source of all other virtues.
"Jesus was not content with giving us his assurance that if, after having sinned, we have recourse, with humble repentance, to the Divine Majesty, we shall obtain pardon: as the sentence of God’s mercy would thus be without any outward sign, a cruel anxiety would have ever been upon us, leaving us in doubt of our forgiveness. Therefore did this loving Savior ordain that men should give us pardon, in his name. That we might know that the Son of Man hath power on earth to forgive sins, he gave power to his delegates to pronounce over us a sentence of absolution, which our very ears might hear, and which would convey to our souls the sweet confidence of pardon."
Last edited by EscAlaMike; 06-29-2021 at 02:33 PM..
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