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No, the Holy Spirit was making that statement, about being the resurrection and the life. The Holy Spirit spoke like that, in the third person.
He came to glorify Jesus. To do that He also had to talk about Himself. You know, all of that stuff about how only the one who came down from heaven can go up to heaven, the Son of Man. Only, speaking of going back, He always meant to take Jesus, wholly, with Him.
The Spirit will never leave Jesus. Remember that strange third person statement about destroying this temple, the one of His body, and He would raise it again in three days? That was another Holy Spirit third person statement.
Jesus was true to the Father, then the Holy Spirit was true to Him. Because of that victory they are described as the Lamb in Revelation.
The Lamb has seven eyes and seven horns, which are the seven Spirits of God which roam throughout the earth, or something like that. I can't remember if they are sent to roam, or if they just roam. But the Lamb is not just the eyes and the horns. The lamb has a body. You can infer that the Lamb is the unity of the Holy Spirit and Jesus, as they will be forever like that since when they came together as the plan unfolded on earth. So, when the Holy Spirit was poured out upon the disciples, Jesus was in there too.
The Holy Spirit called Himself the Son of Man, but only when He was referring to the relationship He had with Jesus. He was the Son of Man because He was this truly spiritual being that occupied a corporeal body. He lived in John, but only with certain prohibitions in place. Jesus could eat and drink as He pleased.
No. The Spirit of truth, the Holy Spirit is another advocate as Jesus stated. He is a man who takes from what belongs to the son and declares it as Jesus said. People think He is a poltergeist or ghost because they aren’t given the ability to know until they believe.
No. The Spirit of truth, the Holy Spirit is another advocate as Jesus stated. He is a man who takes from what belongs to the son and declares it as Jesus said. People think He is a poltergeist or ghost because they aren’t given the ability to know until they believe.
“If you believe you’ll see the glory of God.”
Free4 - you have a good heart, even with that God complex! But it is more than parroting words.
I carefully read your message and the question you proposed, I would like to comment more about the entirety of what you had proposed and the question, however, I was not completely 100 % sure exactly what you were asking in the statement you had made.
but I did understand what you were saying - I just did not completely understand what the question was asking
I did, however, notice a particular statement you presented regarding Jesus and his resurrection and oncoming glory.
“If the Father is glorified in the son He will in turn glorify him in Himself
Many believers hold to the faith that Jesus existed as emptied out and removed from his previous glory that He possessed with the Father (His deity)
but only for a time
Trinity faith leads Trinitarians to say and believe that “ Jesus emptied Himself of His glory that He possessed with the Father (His deity) for a time “
But yet that Jesus also “ did not cease to be in the form of -- of the same nature (and have the same glory) as -- God the Father “
In other words,
Jesus emptied and voided out his status, RANK, position and his standing and emptied himself and no longer had His glory that He possessed with the Father for a time
and also Trinitarians claim that he also did not cease on earth existing in the form of -- of the same nature ( and having the SAME GLORY ) as -- God the Father “
I am not a trinitarian, however, I can understand and relate to what Trinitarians are saying concerning their faith system.
I have studied this subject in the Bible and have found that Jesus did NOT have the same glory that He PREVIOUSLY had possessed with the Father.
And that He lived his entire existence on earth empty and void of the father’s glory, this glory was removed from him and canceled out and taken away - and just before his death, just before he was to return back to the father whom he exit from / had come / exiting OUT FROM -
he declared, the very moment before he was to die and return back to heaven and LEAVE THE EARTH . .
Joh 17:5 O Father, NOW / AT THIS TIME glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee, before………
Mat 16:27 The Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels
Mar8:38 when the son of man comes in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.
Joh 17:1 Jesus, lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, THE HOUR IS COME; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
In Joh 17 the narrative is describing that Jesus is just about to be delivered to be crucified - he is saying that he does not NOW POSSESS “ the SAME GLORY “ that he had with God and that after his death THEN he will receive the same GLORY that he had before he was conceived on earth.
Mat 16:27 For the Son of man SHALL COME IN THE GLORY of his Father
25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mar 8:38 when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.
Luk 9:26 when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.
Luk 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, AND TO ENTER INTO HIS GLORY?
Would we agree and understand that the Bible makes it clear that Jesus did cease and was taken out of, and removed from the NATURE AND the glory of the father that he previously exited as.
and that the original greek manuscripts transmit this same message, saying that Jesus is the image of the father's confidence - not saying he is the image of the father’s person?
Joh 17:22 the glory which the father had given to Yahashua was the glory he had given to the believer.
Jhn 1:1, In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jhn 1:2, The same was in the beginning with God.
Jhn 1:3, All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
.
Jhn 1:14, And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Isa 44:24, Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
There is a doctrine in holy scripture, identified as kenosis theory, which indicates that Jesus emptied Himself of His divine attributes while never ceasing to be God.
This doctrine can be found primarily in Philippians 2:1-11.
There is a doctrine in holy scripture, identified as kenosis theory, which indicates that Jesus emptied Himself of His divine attributes while never ceasing to be God.
This doctrine can be found primarily in Philippians 2:1-11.
Joh 17:5 And now glorify me you father from yourself, the glory that I had before,
to the world that is from you, I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
Joh 17:5 και And - νυν now - δοξασο glorify - με me - συ you - πατερ father - παρα from - σεαυτω yourself - τη the - δοξη glory - η that - ειχον I had - προ before
- του to - τον the - κοσμο world - ειναι that is - παρα from - σοι you.
I have manifested thy name
The K.J.V renders this passage to change it to say . ... .
Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.*
And the Catholic Translation seems to intend to take the Trinity home - inserting the words " with thee "
at the ending of this passage.
Joh 17:5 And now glorify thou me, O Father, with thyself, with the glory which I had, before the world was, with thee.
Just for the sake of someone understanding more about the various trinitarian translations, what purpose or intention or benefit to promoting the trinitarian doctrine would there be to insert or change the passage from saying
And now glorify me you father from yourself, the glory that I had before, to the world that is from you, I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me
how would changing the passage to say
Joh 17:5 And now glorify thou me, O Father, with thyself, with the glory which I had, before the world was, with thee.
how would this be relating to the trinity - why was it important to invent the idea that the glory that Jesus had, with the father was only with jesus before the world was.
does anyone understand how in trinitarian theology, Jesus had the glory with the Father before the world was created, then he lost this glory after the world was created, and then came to be born on earth and received something proportional of the glory of the Father, then he resurrects and ascends to heaven to receive the same glory that he had not had for aprox 6000 years, since the creation of the earth.
If there are any Trinitarians who understand this translation, please explain if you would be so kind and it would be greatly appreciated.
From my understanding of the Trinity, the Father became a Man by taking on human flesh and that this hypostatic union formed the 2nd Person of the Trinity. Then the 3rd Person developed out of the fact that Jesus died on the Cross and released His Spirit back to the Father (to exist side-by-side with Him in eternity); who, when He descended to take on an added nature of human flesh, did not VACATE ETERNITY so that there was not a Father in heaven while Jesus was on earth.
But the Spirit whom Jesus released back to the Father was the Father (John 4:23-24, John 14:7-11); only He was given the title of Holy Ghost to distinguish Him from the Father since He is also distinct from the Father.
He is distinct from the Father in that He has lived a human life and therefore has an experiential understanding of humanity; while the Father as He exists in eternity has never been human; but will become a Man from his own perspective,
Eph 3:11, According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
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