John 10:34-36

[Free4you]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

He provided the Holy Spirit NOT the Bible written by men. If we would follow Jesus we will TEST the Spirit of everything claimed in the Bible against God's Holy Spirit of agape love as revealed and unambiguously demonstrated by Jesus.

“He who speaks on his own seeks his own glory.” That is those who fail to parrot.

“He who seeks the glory of the One who sent him is truthful and there is no unrighteousness in him.”

That would be the prophets who parrot the Father. You know like Jesus did.

[DRob4JC]

Originally Posted by Michael Way

Well, actually it is a big deal because in quoting Psalm 82 Jesus was defending his claim to deity. If Psalm 82 was referring to human beings Jesus would have in effect been saying to the Jews that referring to himself as the Son of God was no big deal because you get to call yourselves gods too. That was not what Jesus was saying. Jesus was claiming to be God and telling the Jews that they get to call themselves gods too would in no way be defending Jesus' claim to be one with the Father. Jesus' quotation of Psalm 82 has to be understood within the context of Jesus' claim both before and after the quote to be God.

If you'd take the time to listen to Heiser on the video I posted he explains the various views of Psalm 82 and why the view that Psalm 82 is referring to men just doesn't work. Whether you agree with what he says or not at least you would be briefed on the various views. I'll post the video again.

Naked Bible Podcast 109 — John 10, Gods Or Men?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7QjE07i8KQ

Jesus didn't need Psalm 82 to claim His deity. The Pharisees clearly understood who He claimed he was in John 5.

I listened to a snippet of the video because I am not spending 48 minutes on this.

One things these experts got wrong IMO is how they interpreted Psalm 82:6/John 10:34. At around 9m 30sec of the video, in explaining the mainstream viewpoint, they said that God called them gods. That's not correct. The "I" in Psalm 82 refers to the psalmist himself. He referred to them as gods. The unjust leaders were OK being referred to as a god.

So Jesus made the point - which is a point where one starts with the lesser and moves to the greater - if they were OK calling themselves gods, why were the Pharisees giving Him a hard time when the Father in heaven validated His deity.

So the video doesn't even get that correct - and that's pretty clear because the Psalmist refers to God in the third person in Psalm 82:1. The psalmist is clearly the "I" in 82:6.

I'm just giving my viewpoint. There's no obvious discrepancy one way or the other. Even with the obvious error on their part, I'm not requiring anyone else to agree with me. It's not a salvation issue.

[Meerkat2]

Originally Posted by DRob4JC

Jesus didn't need Psalm 82 to claim His deity. The Pharisees clearly understood who He claimed he was in John 5.

I listened to a snippet of the video because I am not spending 48 minutes on this.

One things these experts got wrong IMO is how they interpreted Psalm 82:6/John 10:34. At around 9m 30sec of the video, in explaining the mainstream viewpoint, they said that God called them gods. That's not correct. The "I" in Psalm 82 refers to the psalmist himself. He referred to them as gods. The unjust leaders were OK being referred to as a god.

So Jesus made the point - which is a point where one starts with the lesser and moves to the greater - if they were OK calling themselves gods, why were the Pharisees giving Him a hard time when the Father in heaven validated His deity.

So the video doesn't even get that correct - and that's pretty clear because the Psalmist refers to God in the third person in Psalm 82:1. The psalmist is clearly the "I" in 82:6.

I'm just giving my viewpoint. There's no obvious discrepancy one way or the other. Even with the obvious error on their part, I'm not requiring anyone else to agree with me. It's not a salvation issue.

Rob, I agree that the point was not to tell them of his diety but I don’t think that psalm 82 is about the writer personal thoughts as such - this psalm will have ties to other Scriptures because that is how things are developed, and I believe we are to follow the “threads” “thoughts” In relation to other Scripture

Asaph is about collection, collecting things together like a library

H623***(Strong)
אָסָף
'âsâph
aw-sawf'
From H622; collector; Asaph, the name of three Israelites, and of the family of the first: - Asaph.



All Scripture is given to us through “man” by inspiration

God does not speak directly there is the medium of written word and inspiration “bound” together

Psa 82:1**A Psalm of Asaph. God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
Psa 82:2**How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.
Psa 82:3**Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
Psa 82:4**Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
Psa 82:5**They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
Psa 82:6**I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
Psa 82:7**But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
Psa 82:8**Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

Isaiah 41:21-29 seems to relate to this

[Michael Way]

Originally Posted by DRob4JC

Jesus didn't need Psalm 82 to claim His deity. The Pharisees clearly understood who He claimed he was in John 5.

Jesus didn't need to quote Psalm 82 but he chose to do so. The Pharisees understood what he was saying.

I listened to a snippet of the video because I am not spending 48 minutes on this.

One things these experts got wrong IMO is how they interpreted Psalm 82:6/John 10:34. At around 9m 30sec of the video, in explaining the mainstream viewpoint, they said that God called them gods. That's not correct. The "I" in Psalm 82 refers to the psalmist himself. He referred to them as gods. The unjust leaders were OK being referred to as a god.

So Jesus made the point - which is a point where one starts with the lesser and moves to the greater - if they were OK calling themselves gods, why were the Pharisees giving Him a hard time when the Father in heaven validated His deity.

So the video doesn't even get that correct - and that's pretty clear because the Psalmist refers to God in the third person in Psalm 82:1. The psalmist is clearly the "I" in 82:6.

I'm just giving my viewpoint. There's no obvious discrepancy one way or the other. Even with the obvious error on their part, I'm not requiring anyone else to agree with me. It's not a salvation issue.

If you had listened just a little longer you would have heard Heiser say that it was the Psalmist who was speaking in 82:6. So, no. He did not get that incorrect. You're assuming that the Psalmist was referring to the gods, the sons of the Most High as mere men. But that would be contrary to the supernatural world view of the Bible and of the divine council.

Here. Let me show you the divine council in action. In 2 Chronicles 18:18-22 God is addressing the divine council. This is taking place in heaven. God has decided that it's time for Ahab to die and he asks his divine council how to bring Ahab's death about. One spirit offers an idea then another spirit offers a different idea, but then a spirit comes forward and offers to be a deceiving spirit in the mouth of Ahab's prophets in order to entice Ahab to go to battle where he will be killed. God approves of this plan and knows that it will work. Read 2 Chronicles 18:18-22 for yourself.

God doesn't need a divine council to come up with ideas, but he chooses to use one.

I understand that you don't want to take the time to listen to the entire video. You're satisfied with what you already believe. Most people find it easier to just stick with what they already believe than to make the effort to put their beliefs to the test by examining all the evidence. I get that. I said at the beginning that I didn't intend to start a debate on the issue. But my viewpoint, which again, is the minority viewpoint, recognizes the supernatural worldview of the Bible and that the divine council consists of other gods . . . created gods which are of an angelic type creation.