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The one who penned the book of Revelation identifies himself as the apostle John (Revelation 1:4); who also witnessed the literal crucifixion of Jesus (John 19:26-27, 21:20,24)..
Yeah, yeah, right! Whoever he was he believed in a wrathful God because that was the only God they knew. That is why the unambiguous demonstration of God's True Nature by Jesus was so impossible to understand and had to be misinterpreted as something God MUST have demanded to appease His wrath for "whatever!"
Yeah, yeah, right! Whoever he was he believed in a wrathful God because that was the only God they knew. That is why the unambiguous demonstration of God's True Nature by Jesus was so impossible to understand and had to be misinterpreted as something God MUST have demanded to appease His wrath for "whatever!"
Rev 1:4, John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
Since the book of Revelation was written circa 95 A.D., what other John, other than the apostle John, do you propose was the author of this book?
And that is what I am saying...that John, who actually witnessed the crucifixion of Jesus, believed in a God who has justice and wrath against sin.
Did you ever stop to think that maybe he got the right message from the crucifixion and you got the wrong one? Since you weren't an eyewitness to what happened; while he was an eyewitness.
Mar 15:34, And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Rev 1:4, John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
Since the book of Revelation was written circa 95 A.D., what other John, other than the apostle John, do you propose was the author of this book?
And that is what I am saying...that John, who actually witnessed the crucifixion of Jesus, believed in a God who has justice and wrath against sin.
Did you ever stop to think that maybe he got the right message from the crucifixion and you got the wrong one? Since you weren't an eyewitness to what happened; while he was an eyewitness.
Fortunately, I never had to unlearn the primitive and barbaric interpretation of Jesus on the Cross that you all have been indoctrinated with since becoming Christians. It would never have made any sense to me anyway, so it is fortunate I was spared having to pretend I believed it. The utter contradiction of your view by Jesus as God in the flesh and displaying NO wrath or vengeance whatsoever is too stark.
How is it even rational to believe that it all happened to God because of God's wrath so He could forgive us for "whatever!" What is it about my view that God came as a human to achieve as a human what WE could not achieve for ourselves that you find less reasonable than your ridiculous version?
The fact of the matter, Mystic, is that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23); and that the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23a).
The fact of the matter, Mystic, is that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23); and that the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23a).
The fact of the matter, JBF, is that all who have gone before us have paid those wages by dying. Do you know anyone who has NOT died? What is important is to be "born again" upon our death as Spirits and join Jesus and God. Our entire existence here is preparatory to making us compatible enough to do that.
Jesus as a human took the pressure off us by achieving the perfection needed to connect us with God permanently. Our task is to resonate with Jesus's perfect agape love (however imperfectly) to enable us to join them, hopefully by avoiding any serious refinement issues in removing the dross.
The fact of the matter, JBF, is that all who have gone before us have paid those wages by dying. Do you know anyone who has NOT died? What is important is to be "born again" upon our death as Spirits and join Jesus and God. Our entire existence here is preparatory to making us compatible enough to do that.
Jesus as a human took the pressure off us by achieving the perfection needed to connect us with God permanently. Our task is to resonate with Jesus's perfect agape love (however imperfectly) to enable us to join them, hopefully by avoiding any serious refinement issues in removing the dross.
All who have ever lived and believed in Jesus have never died (John 11:25-27).
Their last breath on earth was their first breath in heaven.
The fact of the matter, JBF, is that all who have gone before us have paid those wages by dying. Do you know anyone who has NOT died? What is important is to be "born again" upon our death as Spirits and join Jesus and God. Our entire existence here is preparatory to making us compatible enough to do that.
Jesus as a human took the pressure off us by achieving the perfection needed to connect us with God permanently. Our task is to resonate with Jesus's perfect agape love (however imperfectly) to enable us to join them, hopefully by avoiding any serious refinement issues in removing the dross.
Sounds more and more like the New Age Movement to me as time passes.
Sounds more and more like the New Age Movement to me as time passes.
I am a Christian who believes Jesus is God in the flesh and my Savior and I follow Jesus Christ. No matter what bogey man you try to associate me with, that will never change.
I am a Christian who believes Jesus is God in the flesh and my Savior and I follow Jesus Christ. No matter what bogey man you try to associate me with, that will never change.
Since it is very likely against the rules of the boards to tell you my real opinion concerning this, I will let that one slide.
I will say this...the only way to become a "born again Christian" is to believe in Jesus and what He did for you in offering up His life as a propitiation for your sins, taking the penalty for your sins on the Cross and absorbing the justice and wrath of a holy God unto Himself.
But Paul wrote that in the latter days men would not endure sound doctrine but would heap to themselves teachers to tell them what their itching ears want to hear.
The real message of Christianity may not be not popular, as your message very likely will be (see 1 John 4:4-6)...but it is true.
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