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Martin Luther famously insisted on justification through faith alone (not works) … and even faith was something that one couldn’t somehow attain on one’s own. It was a gift of God’s grace.
But what exactly is this “faith” if in fact it is not about being good (loving one’s neighbor, helping the poor, etc.) Is it merely belief in the clauses of the creeds used in the church — belief that God gave us Christ to suffer in our place and win salvation for us? I mean in actual fact. Obviously, I cannot go through my entire day thinking and re-affirming this belief. I am not good at multitasking and need to use my mind and heart for other things, like doing my job. There are many, many things that I believe that do not affect me one way or another in my day-to-day life, but if stopped and thought about it, I would admit that I believed them. I believe the sun will come up tomorrow … I really really do … and yet I just do not think about it that often.
Or maybe faith is a feeling …. a feeling that Christ is there for us and that everything will work out in the end? Yet, no one goes through life feeling confident and positive all the time.
I was brought up as a Missouri synod Lutheran and remember wondering about this and never getting a great answer. I would be saved from hell and meet Christ in heaven, if I faith and only if I had faith no matter how “good” my life might be in other ways. And yet, was it simply enough to recite the creed on Sundays, feel a glow of spirituality, then just go about my everyday affairs during the week? Surely, this wasn’t good enough? Or was it? But if my faith has to somehow be more than that … how much more?
As a Lutheran, what does “faith” really mean to you in actual practice …. in your everyday life?
Martin Luther famously insisted on justification through faith alone (not works) … and even faith was something that one couldn’t somehow attain on one’s own. It was a gift of God’s grace.
But what exactly is this “faith” if in fact it is not about being good (loving one’s neighbor, helping the poor, etc.) Is it merely belief in the clauses of the creeds used in the church — belief that God gave us Christ to suffer in our place and win salvation for us? I mean in actual fact. Obviously, I cannot go through my entire day thinking and re-affirming this belief. I am not good at multitasking and need to use my mind and heart for other things, like doing my job. There are many, many things that I believe that do not affect me one way or another in my day-to-day life, but if stopped and thought about it, I would admit that I believed them. I believe the sun will come up tomorrow … I really really do … and yet I just do not think about it that often.
Or maybe faith is a feeling …. a feeling that Christ is there for us and that everything will work out in the end? Yet, no one goes through life feeling confident and positive all the time.
I was brought up as a Missouri synod Lutheran and remember wondering about this and never getting a great answer. I would be saved from hell and meet Christ in heaven, if I faith and only if I had faith no matter how “good” my life might be in other ways. And yet, was it simply enough to recite the creed on Sundays, feel a glow of spirituality, then just go about my everyday affairs during the week? Surely, this wasn’t good enough? Or was it? But if my faith has to somehow be more than that … how much more?
As a Lutheran, what does “faith” really mean to you in actual practice …. in your everyday life?
I'm not Lutheran, but I have Lutheran in-laws. I also know a few Missouri Synod pastors well, and I THINK I can comment to a point. I will certainly attempt to be correct according to what one told me.
They believe it to be trust in Christ--his death, burial, and resurrection. It causes one to do good things, such as loving one's neighbor, helping the poor, etc. It's the WHY that causes one to do those things.
Luther said we are saved by faith alone, but not faith that is alone. If your faith is real, it's going to cause you to do good things. Just like falling is not gravity, but is evidence of gravity.
Last edited by BaptistFundie; 09-07-2021 at 12:30 PM..
Reason: Just to correct a typo.
I'm not Lutheran, but I have Lutheran in-laws. I also listen know a few Missouri Synod pastors well, and I THINK I can comment to a point. I will certainly attempt to be correct according to what one told me.
They believe it to be trust in Christ--his death, burial, and resurrection. It causes one to do good things, such as loving one's neighbor, helping the poor, etc. It's the WHY that causes one to do those things.
Luther said we are saved by faith alone, but not faith that is alone. If your faith is real, it's going to cause you to do good things. Just like falling is not gravity, but is evidence of gravity.
OK, thanks — that is helpful. I am preparing a short talk to an ecumenical group about my personal faith history — from conservative Lutheran, to liberal Lutheran to liberal Christian to atheist — and am trying to get myself back into the mindset/beliefs of Lutheranism.
OK, thanks — that is helpful. I am preparing a short talk to an ecumenical group about my personal faith history — from conservative Lutheran, to liberal Lutheran to liberal Christian to atheist — and am trying to get myself back into the mindset/beliefs of Lutheranism.
I'm sorry. I was speaking from a Missouri Synod perspective. My wife grew up ELCA, prior to moving to Missouri Synod. ELCA might have a much different view, but I honestly don't know that I'd represent it accurately.
I'm not Lutheran, but I have Lutheran in-laws. I also know a few Missouri Synod pastors well, and I THINK I can comment to a point. I will certainly attempt to be correct according to what one told me.
They believe it to be trust in Christ--his death, burial, and resurrection. It causes one to do good things, such as loving one's neighbor, helping the poor, etc. It's the WHY that causes one to do those things.
Luther said we are saved by faith alone, but not faith that is alone. If your faith is real, it's going to cause you to do good things. Just like falling is not gravity, but is evidence of gravity.
The ELCA’s official Confession of Faith identifies the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments (commonly called the Bible); the Apostles’, Nicene and Athanasian Creeds; and the Lutheran confessional writings in the Book of Concord as the basis for our teaching. ELCA congregations make the same affirmation in their governing documents, and ELCA pastors and deacons promise to carry out their ministry in accordance with these teaching sources. This Confession of Faith is more than just words in an official document. Every Sunday in worship ELCA congregations hear God’s word from the Scriptures, pray as Jesus taught and come to the Lord’s Table expecting to receive the mercies that the Triune God promises. Throughout the week ELCA members continue to live by faith, serving others freely and generously in all that they do because they trust God’s promise in the Gospel. In small groups and at sick beds, in private devotions and in daily work, this faith saturates all of life.
Teaching for a life of faith
This connection to all of life is the clearest demonstration of the authority that the canonical Scriptures, the ecumenical Creeds and the Lutheran Confessions have in the ELCA. The Holy Spirit uses these witnesses to create, strengthen and sustain faith in Jesus Christ and the life we have in him. That life-giving work continues every day, as Martin Luther explained in the Small Catechism: the Holy Spirit “calls, gathers, enlightens and sanctifies the whole Christian church on earth and preserves it in union with Jesus Christ in the one true faith.”
I'd consider faith to be belief that Jesus was/is who he indicated he was, that there is a Holy Spirit, that the spiritual realm exists, and we can connect with it.
I.e. faith is entirely connected with belief and philosophies (mental / spiritual). It has nothing to do with other people, actions, external matters. It's entirely within. And it's based on thought / knowledge / experience, not feelings.
Not Lutheran either, nor any label. I'd consider faith to be belief that Jesus was/is who he indicated he was, that there is a Holy Spirit, that the spiritual realm exists, and we can connect with it.
I.e. faith is entirely connected with belief and philosophies (mental / spiritual). It has nothing to do with other people, actions, external matters. It's entirely within.
I view it a bit differently - There is individual and there is societal, both are needed but problems happen when there is imbalance or oppression between the 2
If you are oppressed you will want to free yourself at some stage, Christianity is caught in the middle so to speak, they have a duty to both higher and lower, the personal and the societal
^ But what is society is seeking something unhealthy, which we can't agree with (I can think a ton of examples). We either compromise and sacrifice our values to society, or we have to stick with what we consider healthy. I'll always take the latter approach. The world is largely foolish; I'm not going to partner with it.
^ But what is society is seeking something unhealthy, which we can't agree with (I can think a ton of examples). We either compromise and sacrifice our values to society, or we have to stick with what we consider healthy. I'll always take the latter approach. The world is largely foolish; I'm not going to partner with it.
I agree with you, there is a lot of societal unhealthiness and that is the stuck in the middle that I am referring to, I have the same problem that you do where I am repelled by the General/generational societal unhealthiness and I do not just run with the crowd, but what I do is try to understand why, how, in a much broader context because I am drawn to belief in Jesus, and know there is a God, and that is the strife/war between these that we end up in
Holding to Personal integrity against the societal peer pressure is exactly the position a follower/disciple will be put into
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