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My thinking exactly. Which is why we shuoldn't take Paul's "up in the clouds" metaphor too literally.
It's a cloud of witnesses, God has always come in a cloud, it was a concept well before Christ came.
Hebrews
Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us.
Jesus coming in the clouds is his indwelling people.
Proverbs
Whoso boasteth himself of a false gift is like clouds and wind without rain.
Or maybe what we see are holographic projections from heaven - also based on science and QM. But I'll bet you and I don't see it all that differently.
I find we have the mid-heavens above us where the birds fly.
We also have the outer space heavens.
In Scripture, both mountains and heaven can refer to governmental ruling authorities as over or above mankind.
Then, in Scripture we have the heavens of heavens or God's home location as per 1st Kings 8:27, 39; 45; 49; Psalm 33:13
However, there is No ZIP code listed.
People who believe and accept Christ as their savior will see him calling them up when the die here on earth.
One person standing in the field and the next one standing next to them will be gone. That doesn't say their whole body disappears. It just implies they won't be standing there because Jesus called them up hither which sounds like ok they died.
How many times have we ever heard a Doctor tell us they are sorry but he/she is gone we did all we could? that doesn't mean their body is gone it's just the person inside the body is gone. God called them up. Well that's how I interpret what the rapture is only on a massive level. Which to me implies something about them globally made them all die close to the same time, almost immediately or imminent. That can happen now anyway with nuclear weapons. Look at China with their Islands and North Korea with WMD's. Little Rocket man is getting bigger.
The rapture doctrine, which is held mostly by evangelical Christians, is a SPIN from 1 Thessalonians 4:13-15. It is false doctrine.
Yes, I agree. It is now used by those who ignore God's mandate to care for the earth because---well, they are leaving it! Who cares. Yet "heaven" is coming to earth. Let's not destroy it first.
Yes, I agree. It is now used by those who ignore God's mandate to care for the earth because---well, they are leaving it! Who cares. Yet "heaven" is coming to earth. Let's not destroy it first.
What my pastor calls "Twisted Scripture".
It’s not only the earth that will be destroyed but the heavens and all the elements as well (2 Peter 3:10-13). Christians have been promised new heavens and a new earth. What that means exactly, none of us knows, but it will be wonderful for sure.
It’s not only the earth that will be destroyed but the heavens and all the elements as well (2 Peter 3:10-13). Christians have been promised new heavens and a new earth. What that means exactly, none of us knows, but it will be wonderful for sure.
Please notice Ecclesiastes 1:4 B because God's Word promises 'Earth abides forever' - see also Psalm 104:5
Remember Peter did Not have the Periodic Table, so the elements are the base elementary things of this bad world.
Please notice > 2nd Peter 3:5 (OLD) 2nd Peter 3: 7 (NOW) besides verse 13 (NEW)
The heavens and earth of Noah's day (OLD) were destroyed. No literal heaven, No literal earth.
The heavens and earth of NOW are the governmental heavens and earth since Noah's day down to our day or time frame.
So, the heavens and earth of NEW is made NEW by praying for Jesus to come ! - Rev. 22:20
Come and undo all the badness on earth and bring ' healing ' to earth's nations - Rev. 22:2
Healing to the point that as Isaiah 33:24 wrote that No one will say, " I am sick...."
Earth and its people will be wonderfully healthy as described in Isaiah's 35th chapter
Even ' enemy death ' will be No more on Earth - 1st Corinthians 15:24-26; Isaiah 25:8
Heavens and Earth will be NEW completely free from sin and its now old damaging effects.
You: Please notice Ecclesiastes 1:4 B because God's Word promises 'Earth abides forever' - see also Psalm 104:5
Remember Peter did Not have the Periodic Table, so the elements are the base elementary things of this bad world.”
Me: "One generation passes away, and another generation comes; but the earth abides forever" (Ecclesiastes 1:4).
The Hebrew word 'owlam’ refers to something that is of a long, indefinite period. It is a period of time which you cannot say for certainty when it comes to an end. Owlam does not mean something continues without end. “Owlam” is used in Ecc. 1:10, Isa. 42:14, and Lev 24:9.
Me: Peter didn’t need the periodic table. He had the Holy Spirit to guide his writing. As I stated, none of us knows what exactly the new heavens and the new earth will be like.
You: Please notice > 2nd Peter 3:5 (OLD) 2nd Peter 3: 7 (NOW) besides verse 13 (NEW)
The heavens and earth of Noah's day (OLD) were destroyed. No literal heaven, No literal earth.
The heavens and earth of NOW are the governmental heavens and earth since Noah's day down to our day or time frame.
Me: You are stripping verses from their context to create a doctrine.
2 Peter 3:5 You need to read in context. Peter is saying that scoffers would come in the last days (which began on Pentecost (Acts 2:17). No Scripture says the heavens were destroyed in Noah’s day. You’re reading something in that is not there. And the earth itself, with all of the elements, was not obliterated like it will be when Jesus comes again. 2 Peter 3:7 tells us that the heavens and the earth are being preserved for fire until the day of judgement. That is literal language. The main message for us is that it could have been lights out for the scoffers during Peter’s day, but because the Lord is long suffering, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9). This, my friend, is literal, and there is no reason to think otherwise. Peter wraps it up with a vivid description in verses 10-13. He further tells us that we should be looking forward to this day.
You: So, the heavens and earth of NEW is made NEW by praying for Jesus to come ! - Rev. 22:20
Come and undo all the badness on earth and bring ' healing ' to earth's nations - Rev. 22:2
Healing to the point that as Isaiah 33:24 wrote that No one will say, " I am sick...."
Earth and its people will be wonderfully healthy as described in Isaiah's 35th chapter
Even ' enemy death ' will be No more on Earth - 1st Corinthians 15:24-26; Isaiah 25:8
Heavens and Earth will be NEW completely free from sin and its now old damaging effects.”
Me: Rev 22:20 All this verse shows is an example of John’s prayer, “Even so, come, Lord Jesus!” Period.
Rev 22:2 is speaking of heaven. The River of water of life proceeds from the throne of God and the Lamb. The throne of God is in heaven, not on earth.
Me: The Isaiah 33:24 passage is speaking about forgiveness of sins not physical well being. Isaiah 25:8 speaks about Jesus gaining victory over death at the cross
I don’t believe anyone can say exactly what the new heavens and earth will be like. All I can say is that there will be no more tears, no more death, and it will be a place of lasting peace. Evil people and their works will be thrown into the Lake of Fire where they will suffer night and day eternally. I don’t want to be in such a place.
Last edited by MissKate12; 12-15-2021 at 09:52 AM..
Though I was raised believing in it, the concept has fallen out of favor lately.
Plus, I recently learned the whole idea is only about 100 or so years old.
The scholars I've been reading/watching don't give it credence.
"I believe every word that the Bible says about 'THE RAPURE.'" In other words, nothing.
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