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Oh, really? Then why is it that many argue that Jesus is not God when the Bible says that he is God? Your theory is unsound.
Jesus said multiple times that he wasn't God, so you'd better argue it out with him if you meet him..
In fact I'll start a "Jesus was not God" thread for anybody who wants to discuss it
My parents were working-class and never went to church or even mentioned religion so I suppose they were neutral about it (a sort of cross between christian and atheist) like many working-class people were.
So being sort of neutral they will be half in heaven and half in hell ... lol
Your post from the UR thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorOldSpike
Mate, if there are going to be nonchristians in heaven I swear to God I don't want to go.
In fact it'll never happen or it'd be a case of "oops there goes the neighbourhood"..
Jesus said multiple times that he wasn't God, so you'd better argue it out with him if you meet him..
In fact I'll start a "Jesus was not God" thread for anybody who wants to discuss it
No, he did not. He in fact said that he was God. There is a designated thread for discussions on the deity of Jesus. Your thread will likely be merged into that thread. People who claim that Jesus said he wasn't God or claim that the Bible doesn't say that Jesus is God are about as ignorant as it's possible to be.
It's closer to 200 years old, though it's only been widespread in the US for closer to 100 years.
John Nelson Darby invented it around the 1830s. He was an English preacher. The rapture idea didn't become popular in the US until the Scofield Reference Bible came out in the early 1900s. My parents had one when I was a kid.
John Nelson Darby did not invent the rapture, he invented the secret rapture, that is to say the pre-tribulation rapture. The 3 synoptic gospel all state plainly that the gathering of the church takes place "after the tribulation of those days" and so the church has always believed.
I don't believe in a rapture with people disappearing, someone asked Jesus where these people will be taken.
Jesus answered where the body is the vultures gather. The 2nd coming happens after the 7th and final trump. If you believe in the rapture the way it is being taught, Jesus returns to Earth invisible, stays in the atmosphere but doesn't land...beams up the dead people and christians...goes back to Heaven and comes back in either 3 1/2 years or 7 years THEN He comes back AGAIN, this time you see Him and He lands in Israel where He sets up Shoppe.
John Nelson Darby did not invent the rapture, he invented the secret rapture, that is to say the pre-tribulation rapture. The 3 synoptic gospel all state plainly that the gathering of the church takes place "after the tribulation of those days" and so the church has always believed.
Darby's doctrine was novel, and false.
No, the three synoptic gospels do not state plainly or otherwise that the rapture is after the Tribulation.
Ah, but if Rapturism or any other oddball cult makes Christianity a laughing stock in the eyes of the general public it's not exactly harmless..
Rapturism is what I call "a vanity cult", there are many such cults of all kinds who take a particular Bible passage and like to think that they- and only they- can see things in it that the rest of us poor dumb slobs can't.
But they can't get under the Bible's radar..
"Ignorant people distort things,to their own destruction" (2 Pet 3:16/17)
"Don't get carried away by strange teachings" (Heb 13:9)
That had occurred to me, and I almost mentioned it in my post, but the Rapture is such Inside Baseball sort of stuff that I don't know how many unbelievers are even aware of the debate or care about it if they are. Anyone who finds the Rapture a laughingstock is likely to find the Second Coming an equal laughingstock. Young Earth Creationism is far more widely known and does indeed make Christianity something of a laughingstock.
While there are Rapture cultists - the previously mentioned Jan Markell and her team being Exhibit A - the doctrine of the Rapture is too well-established, too mainstream, to be considered an oddball cult. My first 20 or so years as a Christian were spent in a well-established, mainstream tradition where I had no clue that anyone doubted the Rapture. As with the book I mentioned, serious mainstream NT scholars of the highest caliber teach and defend the doctrine. "Nonsense" is my own conclusion, but by no means do I think that all those who sincerely hold the doctrine are being nonsensical.
Any ostensibly important NT doctrine that (1) isn't straight from the mouth of Jesus, (2) seems inconsistent with the words of Jesus, (3) is of relatively recent origin, and (4) must be pieced together from obscure verses seems to me to face a seriously uphill battle to establish its credibility. I suppose the appeal of the Rapture is that most of those who hold it think they are going to escape some or all of the Tribulation, but that's not what Jesus indicated in Matthew 24 and parallel verses.
I don't believe in a rapture with people disappearing, someone asked Jesus where these people will be taken.
Jesus answered where the body is the vultures gather. The 2nd coming happens after the 7th and final trump. If you believe in the rapture the way it is being taught, Jesus returns to Earth invisible, stays in the atmosphere but doesn't land...beams up the dead people and christians...goes back to Heaven and comes back in either 3 1/2 years or 7 years THEN He comes back AGAIN, this time you see Him and He lands in Israel where He sets up Shoppe.
Lol.
Rosh Hashanah comes, Rosh Hashanah is the last trump, it isnt the 7th trump.
Why does it have to be so bizzare?
All of you people are discussing appointed days with appointed missions to complete, you are always talking about the day of division known as Rosh Hashanah
On Rosh Hashanah the Last Trump is blown, and then a great trump is blown on Yom Kipour, but that last Trump every Christian talks about, IT IS blown on Rosh Hashanah. The temple is called the house of trumpets for its science of trumpets.
Instead of studying what happens on Rosh Hashanah, Christian's act like it's something new, like their opinion is going to change law and traditions just because they choose to remain IGNORANT of the religion they speak of every day, Judaism.
This isnt an opinion, it is a fact that the first trumpet is blown on Shavuot and the other horn from the same ram is blown on Rosh Hashanah KNOWN TO BE THE LAST TRUMP, THE HEARLDING OF MESSIAH.
Everyday you guys are talking about known tradition and ritual but you know nothing of it.
Every year, EVERYONE is sealed in their forehead and right hand by what worship system they keep and that is an UNCHANGABLE FACT OF THE LAW .
You are reading about a division that is to take place WHILE YOU STILL LIVE.
You ate instructed to see and realize there is a goat within you, that there is a rare within you, that there is a lawless abomination of desolation within you and until you realize it, YOU CANT BE DIVIDED.
Instead of completing your first two harvests daily daily in Passover and studying daily in the wheat, INSTEAD, you dont even know it's a race to the day of the Lord
So it will be true that when you die, you will be divided as a goat and sheep are divided, BUT WOE IS YOU BECAUSE YOU WAITED TILL DEATH.
You have been cut clean in half and dont know it, Gid made you the keeper over his own house to give his children milk of the word unt they could eat meat, but the meat has been rejected, and the evil servant has been cut in half and separated.
Jesus came taking two men to make one servant, now the servant is cut in half and the children of God placed in the guardianship of God's children will be taken from them, and they appointed their place amongst the the sinners for abusing and neglecting what God had put in their charge.
Last edited by Hannibal Flavius; 09-25-2021 at 11:28 AM..
Everytime you read Revelation, you are reading of Rosh Hashanah.
Matthew 24 IS ROSH HASHANAH.
At the same end of the wheat harvest when one completes both the barley and the wheat harvest, HE IS DIVIDED AND THE TARE TAKEN.
THE HOUSE HAS TO BE MADE EMPTY BEFORE YOU CAN OBTAIN A NEW SPIRIT.
You have to race to the day of division.
Last edited by Hannibal Flavius; 09-25-2021 at 12:09 PM..
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