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God has two 'books.' The book of scripture and the book of nature. Properly understood there is no conflict between the two. God doesn't expect us to ignore the scientific knowledge that has been gained when interpreting the Bible. Nor does God want us to check our brains at the door when studying the Bible.
Book of nature??
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Originally Posted by Michael Way
Why? The Bible Wasn't written to us. It was written thousands of years ago to the people who lived at that time. That doesn't mean that the Bible wasn't written for us. But it was written in a manner which made sense to an ancient people.
And yes, I still believe the Bible is the word of God and is inspired by God. I just understand it differently than in a fundamentalist way.
The Bible is written for all people in all times.
No - you don't believe God inspired the contents of the Bible... at least not all of it. You are saying the historical content is embellished. That's not actually putting faith in God's word.
Well - sad to see you go this route. Hopefully God will bring you back to complete faith in Him and His Word. The Book of Nature ain't it... whatever that is...
God has two 'books.' The book of scripture and the book of nature. Properly understood there is no conflict between the two. God doesn't expect us to ignore the scientific knowledge that has been gained when interpreting the Bible. Nor does God want us to check our brains at the door when studying the Bible.
Why? The Bible Wasn't written to us. It was written thousands of years ago to the people who lived at that time. That doesn't mean that the Bible wasn't written for us. But it was written in a manner which made sense to an ancient people.
And yes, I still believe the Bible is the word of God and is inspired by God. I just understand it differently than in a fundamentalist way.
I like how you put all that mike
As a whole The bible has layers, and there is the metaphorical, allegorical that is written to us collectively And the understanding of that has been and will be understood in particular ways depending on the timing
Figurative language. God is the author of nature. Therefore nature and the Bible when understood properly are not in conflict.
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The Bible is written for all people in all times.
I said that the Bible is written for us. It just wasn't written to us. It was written to an ancient people.
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No - you don't believe God inspired the contents of the Bible... at least not all of it. You are saying the historical content is embellished. That's not actually putting faith in God's word.
While the Bible is the word of God, and while it is inspired, the books of the Bible were written by men who wrote within the context of their own time and culture. It is not a lack of faith in God's word to recognize this.
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Well - sad to see you go this route. Hopefully God will bring you back to complete faith in Him and His Word. The Book of Nature ain't it... whatever that is...
Disagreeing with your views does not mean a lack of faith in God and his word. Since God created nature he is the author of nature . . . therefore, the book of nature. And it comes out of the Belgic Confession of Faith in the year 1561, article 2.
2 By what means God is made known unto us We know him by two means; first, by the creation, preservation and government of the universe; which is before our eyes as a most elegant book, wherein all creatures, great and small, are as so many characters leading us to contemplate the invisible things of God, namely His power and divinity, as the apostle Paul says, Rom. 1:20. All which things are sufficient to convince men, and leave them without excuse. Secondly, he makes himself more clearly fully known to us by his holy and divine Word, that is to say, as far as is necessary for us to know in this life, to his glory and our salvation. [bolding mine]
As a whole The bible has layers, and there is the metaphorical, allegorical that is written to us collectively And the understanding of that has been and will be understood in particular ways depending on the timing
Thank you, Meerkat. Yes, the Bible can be described as having layers. It has many different genres. And the Bible can be quite messy. The biblical writers wrote at different times, under different circumstances and they didn't always agree with each other.
Thank you, Meerkat. Yes, the Bible can be described as having layers. It has many different genres. And the Bible can be quite messy. The biblical writers wrote at different times, under different circumstances and they didn't always agree with each other.
Agreed
That is because of a delay between the spoken..... and writing
From the Belgic confession you quoted #3 shows the delay from the inspiration/movement of the men of God to the writing down by the servants of God - the prophets and Apostles
3 Of the written Word of God
We confess that this Word of God was not sent, nor delivered by the will of man, but that holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Ghost, as the apostle Peter says. And that afterwards God, from a special care, which he has for us and our salvation, commanded his servants, the prophets and apostles, to commit his revealed word to writing; and he himself wrote with his own finger, the two tables of the law. Therefore we call such writings holy and divine Scriptures.
Also #1 shows the separation between the highest and “usâ€
1 That there is One Only God
We all believe with the heart, and confess with the mouth, that there is one only simple and spiritual Being, which we call God; and that he is eternal, incomprehensible invisible, immutable, infinite, almighty, perfectly wise, just, good, and the overflowing fountain of all good.
I like how you put all that mike
As a whole The bible has layers, and there is the metaphorical, allegorical that is written to us collectively And the understanding of that has been and will be understood in particular ways depending on the timing
Figurative language. God is the author of nature. Therefore nature and the Bible when understood properly are not in conflict.
I said that the Bible is written for us. It just wasn't written to us. It was written to an ancient people.
While the Bible is the word of God, and while it is inspired, the books of the Bible were written by men who wrote within the context of their own time and culture. It is not a lack of faith in God's word to recognize this.
Disagreeing with your views does not mean a lack of faith in God and his word. Since God created nature he is the author of nature . . . therefore, the book of nature. And it comes out of the Belgic Confession of Faith in the year 1561, article 2.
2 By what means God is made known unto us We know him by two means; first, by the creation, preservation and government of the universe; which is before our eyes as a most elegant book, wherein all creatures, great and small, are as so many characters leading us to contemplate the invisible things of God, namely His power and divinity, as the apostle Paul says, Rom. 1:20. All which things are sufficient to convince men, and leave them without excuse. Secondly, he makes himself more clearly fully known to us by his holy and divine Word, that is to say, as far as is necessary for us to know in this life, to his glory and our salvation. [bolding mine]
Book of nature... yeah I understand God and nature are not in conflict. He created nature... of course they are not in conflict. Just strange language you are using. There is no book. There is God.
Bible written/not written to us... I didn't misquote you. The Bible is written to all people. Other than the toys and technology - people are still people. It will be relevant 1,000 years from now if Christ hasn't returned.
Lack of faith... the lack of faith is not about recognizing men wrote in reference to their point in history - the lack of faith is about saying flood didn't happen... the parting of the Red Sea didn't happen. Do you think that these sentiments give glory to God? Decades after the parting of the Red Sea, Rahab gave glory to God for the Red Sea event.
Joshua 2:10-11 - For we have heard how the LORD dried up the water of the Red Sea before you when you came out of Egypt, and what you did to the two kings of the Amorites who were beyond the Jordan, to Sihon and Og, whom you utterly destroyed. 11 When we heard it, our hearts melted and no courage remained in any man any longer because of you; for the LORD your God, He is God in heaven above and on earth beneath.
I know you are saying a lot of things, but a man will be known by his fruit. I'm just telling you as a friend and brother in Christ that your fruit is off with this. I have noticed this for a little while with your increased focus on the studies of others. And if you continue down this road, you are going to continue reasoning away the works of God in Scripture... you may even deny the physical resurrection of Christ like some on here. Leaven will leaven the whole lump if you are not careful.
Book of nature... yeah I understand God and nature are not in conflict. He created nature... of course they are not in conflict. Just strange language you are using. There is no book. There is God.
Good grief. Can't you understand figurative language? The book of nature is simply a way of saying that God is the author of nature.
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Bible written/not written to us... I didn't misquote you. The Bible is written to all people. Other than the toys and technology - people are still people. It will be relevant 1,000 years from now if Christ hasn't returned.
Distinguish between 'to' and 'for.' The Bible was written to an ancient culture and people using concepts which they were able to understand but which are at odds with what modern science knows about the natural world we live in. Even so, the Bible was written for us, written for all people.
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Lack of faith... the lack of faith is not about recognizing men wrote in reference to their point in history - the lack of faith is about saying flood didn't happen... the parting of the Red Sea didn't happen. Do you think that these sentiments give glory to God? Decades after the parting of the Red Sea, Rahab gave glory to God for the Red Sea event.
The flood DIDN'T happen. Not the global flood you feel you must believe happened in order to have faith. And by the end of the 19th century most theologians recognized that there was no global flood because of the geological evidence against it.
Whether or not Moses parted the Red or Reed Sea is a different issue.
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Joshua 2:10-11 - For we have heard how the LORD dried up the water of the Red Sea before you when you came out of Egypt, and what you did to the two kings of the Amorites who were beyond the Jordan, to Sihon and Og, whom you utterly destroyed. 11 When we heard it, our hearts melted and no courage remained in any man any longer because of you; for the LORD your God, He is God in heaven above and on earth beneath.
I know you are saying a lot of things, but a man will be known by his fruit. I'm just telling you as a friend and brother in Christ that your fruit is off with this. I have noticed this for a little while with your increased focus on the studies of others. And if you continue down this road, you are going to continue reasoning away the works of God in Scripture... you may even deny the physical resurrection of Christ like some on here. Leaven will leaven the whole lump if you are not careful.
I appreciate that but my fruit is not 'off.' And the physical resurrection of Jesus is a certainty. I know this because of my studies of the scholarship on the subject.
The Bible as I said is the word of God and was inspired by God. But that doesn't mean that the creation and flood stories are literal and historical. It's a pity that the modern fundamentalist can't understand this.
Last edited by Michael Way; 10-09-2021 at 08:42 PM..
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